Episode 58 – Nurturing With Personalized Videos w/ Julie Christie

Transcription was done by Rev.com

Scott: Welcome to episode 58. My name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz, and I'm joined by my guest Julie Christie. Julie is a photographer and a teacher. She loves to connect with brave, hard working photographers who are not afraid to shake things up a bit with their quest to build a flourishing business on their own terms. She does this through her online membership community, Togs in Business.

Scott: We were kind of introduced, I think it was somebody recommended by Facebook group and then sent me over to you, or maybe it was Chris Scott. I don't even remember, but I'm glad that we were introduced one way or another, and are able to connect today to talk about some really fun, one of my favorite topics is just sort of nurturing your leads and your customers. I'm glad to have you on the show. Welcome.

Julie: Oh it's so good to be here. Thank you for having me on the show.

Scott: Yeah. Totally.

Julie: It's good to chat marketing and photography and business with someone else who loves that stuff too.

Scott: For sure. Yeah, definitely. It's kind of, I don't know, my day to day I don't get to talk on these sort of topics with other photographers, so it's nice whenever I hop on the podcast, which is, it's more business related than anything else, so it's definitely nice every couple of weeks to be able to get a nice chat in about these things.

Julie: Yeah. Geek out. Find a fellow geek and geek out for a while.

Scott: Yeah. Before we dive into what's going on in your world, let's talk a little bit about WordPress photography related news. We have two things to share. The first is, NextGEN Gallery 3.0, the backend redesign, is coming out very soon. It was supposed to release before this episode was recorded. It'll probably be out by the time this episode airs. It's slated to go out next week, as long as all goes well. We're recording this on April 18th, so hopefully by the time this airs it's actually out. It's close to being done, and it's beautiful, and it's going to be much easier for everybody to use.

Scott: Then the second thing I want to share is that I released a course myself, called More Leads, More Clients. If you are looking to get more leads for your photography business, check out the new course. I will link to it in the show notes. Just I hope you check it out and maybe you'll learn something just from the landing page, or maybe you'll join and learn even more. Either way, if you want more leads for your photography business, check out my course, More Leads, More Clients.

Scott: Julie, what's going on with you? I hear you got back from a holiday, also known in the United States as a vacation.

Julie: I did. I know. This is the thing, half of my members are from the states and we have so much fun comparing the different words that you guys use for different things. Sometimes it gets almost rude. Some of the words that you guys use day to day, we would use to swear. Honestly. The holiday and the vacation thing is a funny one.

Julie: Holiday, I've been on vacation, and it was great.

Scott: It's funny though, on that topic, because wedding photographers, for example, that are communicating in the same country that they live in to try to get their clients there, have no language issues. The moment they become a destination wedding photographer, it's a whole different ballgame.

Julie: That's it exactly. Exactly. We have so much fun. The last debate that we had was about Lego and Legos. You guys say Legos; you have a plural for Lego. I swear this debate, this argument, went on for days. It was so funny.

Scott: You're saying that when you have a box filled of multiple Lego blocks, it's still called Lego?

Julie: Yes, it's Lego. It's Lego. Do you know, we even went to the trouble of contacting Lego and asking the question.

Scott: They agreed?

Julie: Officially it's Lego should never have an S on the end, ever.

Scott: Wow. Okay, so I've got to share that with everybody, because that's pretty amazing.

Julie: It's Lego bricks, never Legos.

Scott: Nice. Well you heard it here.

Julie: You heard it here first.

Scott: That's awesome.

Julie: Deep, meaningful chats.

Scott: Yeah. My Lego camera, my daughter's playing with it upstairs.

Julie: Oh you have a Lego camera, that's so cool.

Scott: I sure do, and I usually have a little Lego guy holding a camera sitting on top of it, that she also tends to play with too.

Julie: Fantastic. I love Lego. You are never too old for Lego.

Scott: For sure. I agree. You got back from a holiday, what else is going on?

Julie: As you've already said, I have a membership site for photographers, and we are, at the moment we're working on funnels, which is my favorite thing.

Scott: Nice.

Julie: We're creating online funnels together. Yeah, that's basically all my life is about at the moment, is I go to bed dreaming of funnels and I wake up thinking of funnels, and I'm talking about funnels. Yeah, that's basically what's going on right now.

Scott: Well that's good. You've got your funnel out here, because at least this episode we're not really talking funnels so much.

Julie: No, we're not.

Scott: Even though what we're talking about is part of a funnel.

Julie: Yes, absolutely.

Scott: We're kind of talking funnels, but not in the direct sense.

Julie: Yeah. We're talking more about flirting and nurturing and ...

Scott: Yeah, pretty much. Okay, so let's talk about this. The first thing you do when you get a new lead for your photography business, what do you do immediately?

Julie: I have to start this by saying that I no longer do paid photography. My main gig is the membership site. What we're talking about today with video messages is not something that I have personally done with my photography business, only with my membership business. We have members, so can I give you a background story to this?

Scott: Yeah, for sure.

Julie: Okay, so I joined ConvertKit, which an email marketing system, like MailChimp or ActiveCampaign. I joined ConvertKit, and the day that I joined, in fact literally three minutes after I joined, I get this video message from a guy, Tyler, saying, “Hey Julie.” He went to the trouble of checking out my website. He said, “I've just looked at your website. So delighted you've joined ConvertKit. I can see that you're going to be a great fit for us. I particularly love this blog post of yours. If you have, I am your personal account manager, if you have any questions, shoot me an email. I'm here five days a week. Blah, blah, blah.”

Julie: I mean I know that he's sending them out to everyone, but I felt so, I thought that was so cool. I just thought that really differentiated them, and actually I was doing a free trial, so it cemented the deal without a doubt. I thought, I'm staying with these guys, I love these guys. I love that he personalized it with my name, but not only that, that he took the time to go and check out my website and find out a little bit about me.

Julie: It just made me think, why would we not do this, why would we not all do this? This is particularly effective for photographers. For local businesses this is even more effective for them, it takes it to a whole new level. We talked about it in the membership, and lots of my members started to implement this, use video messages within their customer experience. From the inquiry stage all the way through. That's how it was born for me, but I've since realized that so many different businesses are doing this and doing it really, really well.

Scott: Yup. You know, it's something that I've been pushing for us to add inside of Imagely. The problem with that is it would either be me doing it, which I don't necessarily have the time to do that for every customer, or it would be us literally hiring somebody just to do that, because our support team doesn't have the time to do it for every customer.

Scott: It is very important, and it does convert. In fact, I do it in my own business, for my own photography business. It is so effective. Video is a, there's nothing more engaging than seeing somebody.

Julie: Absolutely.

Scott: That is why we do the podcast in video. Even though the audio, just because of the nature of podcasts, audio does better, gets more subscribers, people don't want us to get rid of the video.

Julie: Yeah, absolutely.

Scott: That's why.

Julie: People love a face. They love a face to look at. No matter what that face looks like, they love a face. Putting a face to the name, putting a face to the voice. There's something about seeing someone and their mannerisms, and all that stuff that helps you connect on a much deeper level than simply via email or even over the phone. It's just a new dimension, isn't it?

Scott: Yup. For sure. Totally is. We got the backstory. Now you hypothetically you have a photography website still, you still have your own photography business and you get a lead, what do you do first? Do you reply with email, or do you go right to a video, and what do you say?

Julie: I would go straight. Let me give you an example. One of our members, Ross, he's a wedding photographer. He gets an inquiry, and on his inquiry form he asks for the details of the venue, the date, all that stuff, all that usual stuff. He will get straight on to, he uses BombBomb, which is a video messaging app. It's definitely I think the most expensive one. You can use something like Bonjoro, which has a free plan, it's much cheaper.

Julie: He gets straight on to BombBomb and he records a message as soon as he possibly can, as soon as he physically can do so. He'll name the bride, and he'll say, “Thank you so much for getting in touch. I'm so excited to hear that you're getting married in such and such castle, it's one of my favorites. In fact, I particularly love this spot that we ... At the time of year you're getting married, we can do this shot if the weather's good.” He starts basically putting the bride in his story immediately. She can picture herself with him as her photographer straight off the bat.

Julie: He's allowing her to see him, to hear him, to get to know him, and he's showing her that he cares enough to have gone and looked properly at her inquiry and personalized it properly. He does all this in maybe 30 to 60 seconds, really short and sweet. He includes a button to download his information, his ebook.

Julie: You could add all sorts of links in there, but I always think that the more links you add, the more things you ask them to do, the less likely they are to do any of them. I would always recommend that you just have one call to action, and that be very much linked to your business and how you like to bring your leads in, I suppose.

Julie: With Ross, the example I've just given, he likes to very much qualify his leads. He likes them to read some information first and read about his pricing. I suppose you could take them straight to booking a consultation call with you, that could be your call to action.

Julie: If you can imagine the difference if this bride has contacted five, six different photographers, she's probably only going to get one video message, which immediately means that you stand out. You're differentiating yourself. It's coming to her quickly, and if your call to action is to book a consultation call, she's highly likely just to book that consultation call there and then, before she even gets a reply from those other photographers.

Scott: Yup. That's for sure. Another tool that could be useful for this that is completely free, but they do have a paid upgrade, is Loom.

Julie: Loom, yes.

Scott: Yeah, so it's not designed like the other two software that you, like the two that you mentioned are actually designed for this exact thing.

Julie: For this, yeah.

Scott: Loom is just a screen capture tool, but the nice thing is that you can do a quick screen capture of just your camera, and send the link directly to whoever you want. It's nice and quick.

Julie: Absolutely. Yeah, Loom is definitely the choice to get started with, probably if you want to do something free. I suppose the benefit of BombBomb and Bonjoro is that you can do it on the move. You can be on the train, and you can get an inquiry and you can just flick out your phone and just do one right there and then. Nice and raw and on the spot.

Scott: Yeah. I mean, you could also, if you want to go a different route as well, is use other tools that are already accessible to you, your phone's camera. You don't need a tool, because you have the perfect tool right in your phone already. You could do a Instagram story type thing, and send a private message. You can do that in Snapchat if your leads are there, if you can find them and you want to go that route. You could go the distance and further research and go to that, or you can do a fun one in Instagram and Snapchat, download it to your phone, and send that, so you've got the fun animations and AR stuff.

Julie: Yeah. I think that would be really cool actually. You shouldn't be stopped by having to have a dedicated app.

Scott: Paid things.

Julie: Yeah, absolutely.

Scott: Yeah. Here's the funny thing. I have done this for, not for leads. Now I guess before I get to that, what your member is doing is exactly what all photographers are already doing, or should already be doing, via text in an email. All he's doing is taking it from the email and putting it into a visual. It's not doing anything different, it's just now you're getting on camera.

Julie: Yes.

Scott: That's really the big difference here, right?

Julie: Yeah.

Scott: I don't do this for leads yet. I'm going to be starting to do this for leads. I do this for clients that are people who have gone from a lead to an opportunity, and then they have booked me. I got the deposit, and at that point now I'm on video with them, not real time, but I'm on video with them, sending them messages. Usually a couple days before the session I will send a message. Now I just did this for a cake smash session I did this weekend. I sent a message holding a baseball bat, having a baseball hat, because it was a baseball themed cake smash. I said, “Hey Shawn ...” Obviously he's only one, so he can't see me.

Julie: Yeah, I love those.

Scott: The parents enjoyed it. I said, “Hey Shawn, I am so excited for our cake smash session. I got my bat and hat. I'm ready to go.” That's it. That's all it was.

Julie: I love that.

Scott: Quick video. The reply I got from the mom was, “That was amazing. I totally laughed. Thank you, I'm so excited.”

Julie: That's so cool.

Scott: Right?

Julie: Yeah. The options, the opportunities for video are endless. Like you say, you can do all of this with an email and with an image. You could send them a picture, but the impact, it's so easy to consume. They can consume it on the go, and it's going to make them smile and get to know you more, more so than via text, via copy in an email. I love that. That would make you stand out a mile in my eyes, without a doubt.

Scott: Yup, and now the mother and father now have the proofing gallery that they're choosing their images. I'm giving them a hard time because there's so many amazing ones for them to choose from. I know that when it's all said and done, they'll have images on their wall, and their friends will be coming over and seeing it, and they will immediately say, “Go to this guy. He's local and he'll do a great job. He's funny and he's easy to work with.” Et cetera.

Julie: Absolutely. It's great to also send them a little teaser when you have the images all edited and ready. You could be sitting by your computer with the final images really processed in a little gallery, and you could then just jump on, record a very quick message saying, “I've just finished your gallery. I can't wait to see you guys tomorrow to show you all your amazing images.” You could just give them like a tiny little sneak peek so they can't actually see them, but they can see the gallery tile effect. You're just getting them excited, but also you're reminding them about their sales session at the same time.

Scott: Yup. Yeah. There's so many opportunities. We talked about personalizing your communication through video for leads. I brought up a little bit about somebody who's already booked. What do you recommend for photographers to do when they have a client who is now booked, what type of video would you send, aside from my fun baseball one?

Julie: Yeah. If they've already booked, they've already paid for their session fee and they are ready to go, yeah?

Scott: Yup.

Julie: To be honest, I would always keep these videos really short, and I would send them alongside something I wanted them to read. You know we all have information that we want our clients to read, like advice about what to wear, how the experience goes so we're fully preparing them for what to expect. So often, I know you'll be the same, you hear from photographers who say, “I send all this stuff out and no one reads it. I know they don't read it, because then these questions come up.” They're so much more likely to read it if you send a video message with it.

Julie: If you're there saying, “Hey Scott, really looking forward to our session together. I know it's boring, but I'm sending you this contract. It's really important that you read it.” You can add a bit of humor in here, talk about why it's important. It keeps the experience great for you, great for me. They are so much more likely to read that and sign it, actually read it and sign it, because you have personally told them face to face, to do it. You've asked them to do it.

Julie: The same goes for a what to expect brochure that you really want them to read through. You can say to them, “Look, all the questions, I know you guys are going to have so many questions, all of the questions and the answers are in there, so please have a good look through it and let me know if I can help you with anything at all. I know you mentioned on our phone call that you were wondering about what to wear. There's a what to wear guide in there.”

Julie: Just it's so much more, you're just guaranteeing so much more that your clients are going to understand the whole process from start to finish, and you're increasing those touchpoints, aren't you, with you. Instead of them meeting you once for the shoot and then once for the sales session, they're probably going to feel like they've met you five times by the time the sales session comes along.

Julie: If you've done all the pre-sales prep, I know you had Chris Scott on, and he loves to talk about this, the pre-sales touchpoints and preparing your clients for what they're going to buy. You could even send them a little video message in between the shoot and the sales session, saying, “Oh my goodness, you know that we talked about you having this wall gallery in your living room? I have the perfect shot for that. I've just edited it, and it's amazing, and I can't wait to show it to you.” Again, you're just reinforcing what they're there for, and what you're creating together.

Scott: Yup. Totally. You know, I think a key point in here to make is that you're not creating anything new. You're not like coming up with scripts and stuff that are brand new. You're basically using things that you're already doing in your business. Hopefully you've got some sort of lead magnet that's attracting people's attention. That's the stuff I talk about in my course. Hopefully you're creating these, and then you can jus take stuff from that to give to people via the videos.

Julie: Exactly.

Scott: Again, reminding them to look at that PDF that you gave them. You're not creating like tons of work for yourself to come up with all this new stuff. You're just using what you already have in a different way.

Julie: That's it.

Scott: It's, what do they call that? I forgot what they call it, it's not evergreen, but they call it something about like the sort of refreshing.

Julie: Repurposing.

Scott: Repurposing. That's the word.

Julie: Yeah, repurposing your content.

Scott: I couldn't figure it out.

Julie: I know. It's so annoying when that happens.

Scott: Yeah. It's just a brilliant concept.

Julie: Do you know, really it doesn't take any more time. I think especially if you just go for it and use one of the apps, like Bonjoro, which does definitely have a free plan I'm sure. If you go for one of the apps, then literally this is going to take you two minutes out of your day to do this.

Julie: Yes, you have already edited the images, it's only going to take you an extra two minutes to just record that little video and send it. You can have the templates all made up and ready with your calls to action, so all you have to then do is go in, and you don't even need to personalize it, because you're speaking. It's meant to be raw. It's not meant to be polished and beautiful looking. It's meant to be raw.

Julie: The one I got from ConvertKit, and I've had a couple since, the one I got from ConvertKit was handheld, and it was shaky, and the sounds wasn't amazing, but actually it didn't matter. It wasn't that kind of video. It was just on the hoof.

Scott: When looking at what tools to use for this, I think an important thing to consider is one that offers tracking. I'm sure the paid ones, I'm sure they offer tracking so you can see, okay, the person you sent it to has looked at it, once, twice, whatever.

Julie: Yeah.

Scott: If you just do a video message from your phone, you'll get a read receipt, but it's not really meaning they looked at the video.

Julie: That's right.

Scott: If you do it in Loom, or Bonjoro, or if you do an Instagram private message, those are all going to say, “These were looked at."

Julie: Yes. Absolutely.

Scott: I think that's important, because you want to know, one, if it's working, if people are actually engaging. Because if they're not, if it's not working for your clients, either you've got the wrong clients, or they just don't care in your area, and maybe you shouldn't take the time to do it.

Julie: Yeah, that's true.

Scott: It's part of the whole experimental thing.

Julie: I suppose you also have to probably look at where it's going, where it's landing. Because these apps, they're all sent via email, so are they landing in people's junk folders or promotion folders? I know that in our experience so far a lot of the app emails, the video messages, are going to people's promotions folder. Maybe not junk, but they're going to promotions, and sometimes they're not getting seen. What you can do is you can also just send out, especially if it's a client, you could also send a text saying, “Hey, I've just sent you a video message.” Just to double up, make sure they get it.

Scott: Yeah, or maybe it's even send the actual message through text. You send the email without the video link, and then you send the link via a text message so that it gets to their phone with the video, and in the video you say, “Hey, I just sent an email about this, et cetera."

Julie: Yeah, absolutely. Well they're certainly more likely to get it via text.

Scott: Yeah. For sure.

Julie: I suppose with the inquiries, and I think that's where ... This is a double whammy, isn't it? The nurturing of clients and the nurturing of leads. I think with the inquiries that come in, the leads that come in, that's potentially where you're going to make more money from video messages. Because I think without a doubt, you convert more leads and inquiries with video than you do with just replying via email.

Julie: I think the power, the most powerful element of this, is with inquiries. That's probably where it's most likely to go to promotion folders, so I think it's important to test these apps and find out where this email is landing. Because what you don't want is to be sending video messages that no one ever gets to read, like you say. The tracking is vital, without a doubt.

Scott: Yeah. I know that, at least for Loom, they partnered with Google, so when you send a Loom link, it doesn't go into promotions, and it actually gets embedded as if it's like Google Doc type of file, so it actually looks like it's part of Google. I don't know how they manage to pull that off, but it's seamless.

Julie: Yeah, Loom is very, very cool. If you're sitting at your desk, then Loom is the ideal tool, without a doubt.

Scott: Yup. Totally. Let's say you book the client. You start with a lead, you got them with video. You did a little bit of video with the booked client. You finished the session. You know do a little, we talked about some teasers, so you send out the teaser about the sales session and the gallery and so on. Let's say everything's done, do you continue the video content beyond delivery of product?

Julie: Oh most definitely. I think that I've always been really fussy about who I continue with. I continue to nurture clients that I love, that I loved to work with. I don't think I would do it with everyone, but yeah. I mean, if you're working with, if you do a newborn shoot, then why would you not follow up on just before the first birthday saying, “I'm just thinking about you guys, and I know it's Josh's first birthday coming up. And I just wanted to say happy birthday.”

Julie: You don't even need to be sales-ey and offer anything. You can if you want, but really you're just staying top of mind and being nice. I think that's the best thing you can do with these, is to be helpful and kind and nice, and not overly sales-ey.

Scott: I was just thinking, as you're saying that I'm like, you know what? The perfect thing for newborn photographers to do in these videos is to make sure you position yourself, so there's a cake smash photo behind you. You're doing the sort of subtle, “Hey, he's a year. Look behind me."

Julie: I love it. You're so sneaky.

Scott: Yeah, so you're doing this subliminal thing but you're not actually saying, “Hey, hire me for your cake smash session."

Julie: Yes. Exactly. I think it's important actually to talk about that you could overdo this. It would be so easy to overdo it. I think if I was a client, and a photographer had already sent me five video messages before my shoot, I would start getting scared.

Scott: Yeah. You've got to keep it to a minimal of course.

Julie: You've got to be careful. I suppose some people wouldn't like it. You've got to, it all comes back to finding the right fit, the good fit clients, doesn't it? If you enjoy making them, and word gets out that this is what you do, then you're going to attract clients who love that sort of stuff, they're going to love it.

Julie: My friend, he bought a new car from Audi, and he got this video message via Facebook. What they did was they took him on a virtual tour of his new car. It was sitting, it had just been delivered, and they took him on this virtual tour of his new car, and they tagged him in the post. He was furious, he was so angry, he didn't want this all out there for the public to see. I suppose that was public, but I don't even think he would have appreciated it sent to his phone. Some people are funny, aren't they? They're quite private. That's my new car, you've spoiled my surprise.

Julie: You've got to suss out your clients I think. I think that's why it's so important you do speak to them on the phone, and get a sense of who they are before you do things like this.

Scott: Yeah, you definitely have to get a sense for their humor, their personalities. I think it also depends on the genre of photography. It may not work as well in commercial photography. It probably would work the best in wedding photography. In fact, it might even be wedding photography who wants more of it, because they're all about it's them, everything's about them for the next year while they plan their wedding.

Julie: Yes, absolutely.

Scott: The more you can give them, the better. Again, tracking and testing, so you might think a wedding couple might want five video messages, ten video messages, whatever it is. It might be too many. You've got to see what they're opening. After three, do they stop opening?

Julie: Yeah. Absolutely. I think you're right, I think there's a lot more mileage for wedding photographers. If you think about how well you can get to know your bride and your groom before the wedding, and you find out an awful lot about their wedding in advance. You could be at a wedding fair and you might see something and think, do you know, I know that bride of mine, I know she would love this, I'm going to send her a video message and show it to her. You get that kind of relationship, don't you, because it's such a long term booking. I think wedding photographers would get probably the most mileage out of this for sure.

Scott: Yeah. Like normally I do head shots, family photos, cake smashes, stuff like that. I was recently asked to do some product photos for a company that's in town. I met with them and I decided to do a test, so I'm just doing a test that I'm still getting paid for, which is great, to see if we're a good fit. I would have never done a video message for this type of business, because it just doesn't make sense. You've got to be, there's no humor in this specific commercial job, there's no humor. It's just got to be straight to business, and that's it.

Julie: Yeah. You have to know your audience.

Scott: You've got to know the limits. Yeah.

Julie: Know your audience, without a doubt. Then I suppose again it just comes back to, if we're doing a good job on our website and with our marketing, we're attracting those people who like us. If they like us and we're into that, the chances are very high that they're into that too. I mean I love it. I love getting messages like that. It makes such a difference to me when a business has taken the time to get to know me, even just on a very surface level, and so I'm not just a name or a number to them, they've actually, I do feel like they care.

Julie: I'm a business person myself, I know it's a marketing strategy almost, but it's relationship marketing, which is I think what it's all about in 2018, when we're all becoming a bit jaded, aren't we? It's the businesses that become more human who seem to be making it work and have longevity.

Scott: Yeah. I mean look at ConvertKit. There's a reason why ConvertKit has really put a dent in Mailchimp's business with the three years they've been in business.

Julie: Yup.

Scott: However long. It's been a short time, and they're really converting, competing with a company like Mailchimp that's been around for over ten years doing this. It's because of how personal they are making it. Their service isn't really that different than Mailchimp. In fact, the pricing is like equal.

Julie: Yeah, when you go for the pro, yeah, absolutely.

Scott: Yeah. They're not doing much different than Mailchimp, other than personalizing everything.

Julie: Yup.

Scott: This has been a great conversation. I love this topic so much. I'm a big fan of video, so it's like right up my alley. It's time to move into a section of the show where you have the opportunity to ask a question to those listening. When you're ready, fire away.

Julie: Okay. My question, let's go for video, since that's what we've been talking about. Like you Scott, I'm a massive fan of video. I'm a massive fan of live video. I think that in 2018, we have to embrace video and we have to even embrace live video if we want to stand out, differentiate ourselves from the competition. My question would be, what is holding photographers back from putting themselves out there on video?

Scott: Nice. Yeah. I'm looking forward to the answer, because well, I know what a lot of the answers are going to be.

Julie: Yup, me too.

Scott: This should be great. Okay, cool. If you want to answer this question, please go to the show notes of this episode, go the YouTube video, you'll get the link to the show notes in a minute, and just comment with your answer to that question. I will be sure to send all those answers to Julie so that she has them all. It'll be fun. Maybe she'll even come in and reply if she has time. We'll see.

Julie: Absolutely. I 100% will.

Scott: Thank you so much Julie for joining us today. I'm so glad you were able to join and we were able to get a time that worked.

Julie: Oh it's been great. I've really enjoyed it.

Scott: Thanks. You can find the show notes from today's episode, everything we talked about, the different services we talked about, I'm even going to try to find an article on Lego versus Legos. You'll be able to find links to all this, and where to find Julie, at Imagely.com/podcast/58. Until next time.