Episode 130 – Efficiency in Your Photography Business with Peter LaGregor

Transcription was done by Rev.com, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Scott:
Welcome to episode 130, and my name is Scott wine Kivowitz and I'm joined by my guest. Peter McGregor. Peter has run a successful photography business as a side gig. For many years. Photography has been in his life since he was very young. He had a makeshift dark room in the basement and he learned film photography as well as developing and making prints in his teens. Peter does portrait photography professionally, but loves photographing landscapes and teaching photography skills to others. Now he also teaches photography through his website photography goals. So welcome to the show, Peter. Nice to have you here.

Peter:
Thanks Scott. Really excited to be here. Actually I've been a listener for, for a long time when I was getting my business started. So it's kind of, kind of cool to actually be on the show. Oh,

Scott:
Nice. Nice. So your business is, is more recent than cause we've been doing this maybe four, five years, maybe, maybe six years, something like that at this point, but that's right about how all the businesses,

Scott:
The like me, you are not A full-time professional photographer, but rather a part-time professional photographer offering your services on the side from your full-time job. Does your day job have any overlap at all with your photography?

Peter:
Well my, my day job, I'm a lawyer actually. Full-Time trial lawyer as, as you can imagine that that takes a lot of time and, you know, on the surface, I don't think there is any, any overlap. I mean you know, sometimes you know, there's, there's photos involved in a case or something like that, but that's, that's about the only direct overlap. But what I have found is that kind of the, the things, the skills I've learned or developed with, you know, running a business sometimes actually can apply to my other job as well. Especially the marketing stuff. And, and how, how do you talk to people and, you know, dealing with the public? You know, I like I said, I'm a trial lawyer, so I'm talking to juries on a, on a regular basis or at least I was before COVID.

Peter:
But you know, being able to, to learn marketing and, and over the years, I've, I've kinda spent a lot of time learning, you know, reading, marketing books and learning, marketing, and things like that for the business. Kind of figuring out how to talk to people, what people react to, what, what gets people excited or, or just, just involved actually there's significant overlap with that. As far as the photography itself now, I don't, I don't think there's a lot of overlap. But I will say that having the photography, even as a business, and I know, you know, a lot of people say that, you know, if you do photography as a business, it's going to take the fun out of it. It hasn't really, for me. In fact, the photography and shooting portraits has been a little bit of the escape from, from the law and from, from the stress of, of that kind of thing.

Peter:
So I, you know, it's, it's kind of a nice balance in my life. You know, like you said, I like to shoot landscapes to, you know, go out on my own. And you know, the, you know, the ocean and things like that, that that's, that's more, more relaxing, but even, even the business aspect of the photography business is kind of a nice change from, from my day job. So it's, it's got a nice balance, you know mounting the time is, is probably the most difficult part, but it's it, you know, they, they, they go together nicely. I think, I think having a side gig in addition to your day job is, is something that really, you know, everyone, if you have the time should, should do whether it's photography or not, I, I think it helps, helps balance your life a little bit gives you something else to do gives you something to look forward to, you know, at the end of the day and that kind of thing. I think it's actually, if anything else, if nothing else it's actually helped my productivity and, and, you know, kind of balance me a little bit.

Scott:
Right, right. Yeah. W w what you said about the, a lot of people who, who might dislike photography, if they focused on it for too long, that's, that's exactly me. That's what I decided when I decided to get into photography. I knew cause I know myself so well that I knew that if I was doing it, full-time I wind up hating it. So, so I do it, I do it on the know on the weekends whenever I can, whenever I have the ability to take on client work. But if I could only do landscapes and just spend hours just staring at an ocean or whatever it is I would do it in a heartbeat. Yeah. I think if, if cause we didn't have to worry about anything else in life and you could just do landscapes. Yeah. I mean,

Peter:
That's definitely one of the benefits to not doing it full time. Although I think if, if, you know, for the full-time photographers out there, you know, if you're doing, you know, if you're, if you're specific about what you're doing, you pick something that you like, you know, I'm sure there's plenty out there that that would would say it's not, not tedious and not, and it hasn't taken away their love of photography. I'm I'm sure. Right.

Scott:
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all about, everybody's got their own, you know, mindset on things and I just, you know, you have to know yourself and if you, if you know that you can handle it and still love what you're loving and great. You know, of course, and there's, there's thousands of people, cause there's obviously, you know, there's, there's wedding photographers who are doing it and they they love doing what they're doing every single day. And it's funny a lot of the wedding photographers in particular, it's not even about the wedding photography that they love, it's the weddings themselves and the, and the couple of stories and that whole thing. So it's very interesting. Everybody's different and, and everything is good, right? Yeah. So to each their own, it's all good. So for those who in the same situation as you and I managing work and our own businesses, we have our own methods to our madness and I'm sure those who aren't fully immersed in our world might them, or, or, or, or might be soon or thinking about possible methods to manage it all. So can you please share how you balance running a photography business while keeping that full-time job, which is, as you said, slight overlap very little, but otherwise very different between the two. Yeah.

Peter:
And you know, I'm going to say right up front, I am not the most organized person in the world. I am, I'm probably on the other side of, of that, that spectrum of organization. So I don't think you have to be kind of a, you know, very organized, very, very meticulous person to helps. But I'm not that. And I think the biggest thing that I've been able to do, and this is kind of like a super of, of having a side gig as opposed to having to do it full-time is that I've learned to say no a lot and only take the type of photography I want to do shoot the type of shoot the clients that I mesh with. And, and that I think will be a good fit for me. And being able to, you know, like I said, I think this is a super power of having a side gig because I don't, I don't depend a hundred percent on the income from the photography business.

Peter:
So it makes it easy to say, you know what? I don't think that's a good fit. You know, just recently I got a a call, like to shoot a, an event and it would have been like, you know, most of the day and not, not a wedding, but it was, it was most of the day. And, and it just, you know, I really didn't have any, any desire to go do that because it would have taken too much time. You know, like you said, I shoot portraits as far as professional photography to shoot portraits mostly. And, you know, that's a, you know, a two hour session at, at sunset or sunrise and, and then, you know, then we're done, but most of the time is spent with the client, you know, I, I spend time on, you know, a zoom call preparing with them, making sure I know what they like and what kind of style they have, you know, the shooters, the shoot for a couple hours.

Peter:
And then, then we, you know, we go over the photos pick out wall art, all, all that business stuff. But it's, I've structured that in such a way that I do that in the evenings and or early morning, but, you know, maybe one, one out of a hundred clients will want to shoot at sunrise as opposed to sunset. But you know, being able to pick the clients that are a good fit for me has been a big part of that. So I, you know, I'm very upfront about the process and how it works and, you know, tell them, you know, look, we're going to get the best, best images, sunset. So that's what we're going to do it, you know, I don't tell them you know, Hey, I have a full-time job. So we got to shoot at sunset you know, put it in more of a positive spin at for them.

Peter:
But you know, and, and we I've been doing this, the, you know what, I guess what you'd call a sales meeting after the shoot in person, but then of course, COVID, and we started doing that virtually and that's, that's actually been pretty good too. So, you know, the, the business is structured in a way that fits my, my timing, my schedule, and things like that. So I think that the two things that make a big difference for me are like I said, one saying no to the things that don't fit and structuring the business itself around the schedule so that it, you know, it never really gets in the way. I mean, there, there are times I'm at my office during the day where I'll take a photo of client phone call, but you know, other than that, it's, it's been, it's, hasn't been that hard, but, you know, and that's a big product of doing portrait photography. It'd be different if you know, if I was doing corporate event photography, then you know, I'd be working during business hours and that wouldn't be a good fit at all. So maybe I'm a little lucky that I liked that type of photography, but that's, that's been the biggest thing is making sure that it fits and, and being able to say no,

Scott:
If it was if it was product photography, you could do it at any hour of the day. And it wouldn't make a difference.

Peter:
That is, that is, that is true. And, and I've been, been kind of a dabbling in product photography with, with, you know, the website photography goals. We, we do some, some lens and camera reviews. So of course for the, the, you know, when we do review, we take, you know, I take photos of the, the products and stuff. So it's, it's been, that's, that's a fun, a fun genre. It's not, to me, it's not as interesting as meeting people and shooting their portrait, but you know, it's, it's cool. Yeah.

Scott:
It can be quite challenging to I, every so often I'll take on a job that challenges me outside of my comfort zone in the, in photography. And about two years ago, I took on one where I had to photograph a piece of metal that was for, for probably a car of some sort I don't know exactly, but it was probably for a car. And I think there was three, three different sizes. And I just had to photograph individually metal rods and make them look pretty like it's, it's, that's a challenge. Right.

Peter:
It sounds like a reflection nightmare.

Scott:
Yes. Yeah. Well, so that's where you're, you're you're lighting, but you're turning all the lights away from the subject. So you're just basically getting the ambience from the light, not necessarily the actual light on the object, and it's all like it was all very silver metal that if you touch it now, your fingerprints are all over it. So you have to wear gloves while you're holding everything. So yeah, it was a mess, but job has done. Many of the listeners know that I have a course on lead generation and as someone whose photography business is a part-time thing, I often refer leads to friends who, who do run full-time businesses. And I'm curious what are some of the ways that you use your website to generate leads for your photography business?

Peter:
So the biggest thing for, for me has been local SEO search engine optimization. And you know, I think if, if you, if you Googled senior portraits in New Jersey, I think I'm among the top three results. And you know, that, that has been a product of you know, over the, over the last few years, I've definitely spent a lot of time learning search engine optimization and you know, just kind of strategic blogging. And we can, we can dive into that a little bit if you'd like, but the other, the other aspect to that is people don't come to a site and stay all the time. I mean, you're not going to get every single person that visits your website to give you a call. So lead capture has been kind of a big part of that as well.

Peter:
What I'm trying now, and, you know, it used to be just a box and says, you know, see a free consult or something like that. What I'm trying now is a lead magnet where if you came to my site, you'd get a a pop-up or there'd be, you know, depending on where you, where there'd be a box to fill out, to get a family portrait planning guide. And of course the, the planning guide you download, do you need to leave your email address? And then they get a series of emails from me you know, over the next week or two, just talking about portrait photography and showing some examples and, and trying to get them revved up to, to give me a call. And also the portrait guide itself where, you know, I'll have some, some local spots like, you know, best photography spots or what to wear guide the questions that I get the Mo most often, but also you know, it goes through my, my process of, you know, here's, I do a planning session, do the portrait session.

Peter:
And then the, you know, the w we, we would call a sales session, I call it a design session for the clients, and it kind of walks them through my process. And if that gets them excited, then they give me a call. And the result has been that you know, for one, when someone calls me, they're, they're warmed up, I mean, they're ready to go. They they've, they've learned a lot about me already. So the, you know, the, the, the percentage of people that book once they call us is close to 50% which is, I think I mean, I'm not, you know, like I'm not tied into the industry enough to know if that's high, but I'm pretty happy with that. And it's, it's very, hands-off as far as lead generation what I've started doing and, and with, with varying success is trying to run paid ads to those those lead magnets.

Peter:
I don't, I don't know if that's going to be you know, cashflow positive yet, but you know, definitely generating leads. So it's, it's, it looks positive so far. It's really just started doing that in the past past month or so, but there was something that I did when I was first getting started, that was actually really successful. And, you know, we can, I can talk about that if you'd like it was, you know, essentially what, what most of us would call a model call. Just, you know, if you, if you listen to photography stuff online, you you'll hear about this. It's nothing, nothing revolutionary, but you know, I would put an ad out on, on social media paid ad, and it would ask for, you know, this goes back to shooting what I want to shoot, you know at the time I was, you know, trying to get more senior portraits in and more family portraits.

Peter:
So I would put a, put an ad out that said like, Hey if you have kids, you know, if you're a family with two kids and you want to do a family portrait we can do a free shoot. You've got a free five by seven from the shoot. And if you want more no problem. We can talk about it. And essentially it was, you know, what you call a free shoot ad. And people would come, would get, you know, would I'd get maybe a few dozen responses. I would call them all up and tell them how it works and that, you know, it's free five by seven, that's it? No digitals, no nothing. And that they're helping me build my portfolio. That was kind of the angle I would take. And most people just kind of understood that, like, okay.

Peter:
Yeah. Cool. And you know, I'd say if you want more, you're happy to, I'm happy to let you purchase them, but, you know, no, no pressure, no. You know, and I kinda got a feel from talking to them who was most interested in it. And the ad was very specific that like only a few people would be chosen. So after talking to them, if they were like, yeah, we really want to, you know, a new canvas for our wall or something like that. If I knew it would be a kind of a lucrative client, they were the ones that I would pick for the, for the shoot. And, you know, of course all of this was upfront. They, they, they knew that, you know, some people would be picking some people wouldn't. And for the most part, those you know, even though they were, you know, quote unquote free shoots some of those generated, you know, thousands of dollars in Walmart sales and it built my portfolio really quick in the beginning.

Peter:
So you know, that, that was, if anyone's getting started, you know I, I said before, like, you know, side hustle, photographers have certain superpowers. They, you know, there's certain things you can take advantage of as a side hustle photographer as a better professional, a full-time photographer can't do. And one of those is taking a chance on things like these, these free shoots or things like that, you know, but you know, the, you know, of course you read photography websites, everyone's going to be like, don't shoot for free. Don't shoot for free. I disagree completely with that. I think you can do that if you're strategic about it and that if you're shooting for free on your own terms I'm not saying that everyone that calls you and says, Hey, why, you know, why don't you get exposure and treat my wedding for free that's yeah, of course. That's ridiculous. But yeah, that's different. Yeah. It's, you know, that those are, you know, you see those and people complain about the, you know, whatever it's, it is what it is. People are going to ask. And you just have to say no, but you know, when, when you can,

Scott:
Especially as, as, especially as you're, especially as you're building your business, there's no reason why you couldn't strategically do some free photo session. There's no reason why you couldn't, if you're 10 years into your business and it's a big revenue maker, then that's a different story, right. At that point, you're not going to do free. Yeah. I think

Peter:
Even, even then, there's, there's an opportunity for, like you said, the 10, 10 year in photographer too, to say, Hey, you know, I want to try to shoot this type of photography. For example, one, one way that I was extremely, I was really happy with the results I wanted to shoot athletes. You know, and, and I do a lot of high school portraits. And most of them, if you visit my website, you'd see there's a lot of athletes and dancers and, you know, action portraits essentially is, is what they are. And a lot of those came from putting out, or I got started with those from putting out an ad, just like this saying, if you're a high school athlete senior, and you want to see your portrait, that shows off kind of your, your, your thing. Give me a call and I got a bunch of people in, and, and some of those were some of my favorite shoots and are still up on my website.

Peter:
You know, so that was a way for me to kind of say like, this is what I want to do. I'm going to focus on this and get this genre or this specific genre. And in someone who's 10 years in 20 years in, you can still do that. You can say, Hey, I want to do underwater portraits and put up an ad for, for, for that and get a few free clients in and, you know, use that method. I think it's, it's always a tool in your tool belt. It's just not something, you know, you can't, can't do it all the time. Obviously.

Scott:
That's good that you're trying different things. I'm glad that you're doing this lead magnet. I do think an ad for a lead magnet can be successful. It's just a matter of the right approach to it. Not every, like not every Facebook is obviously a great place for it, but you wouldn't go everywhere to do it. Like Google may not be a great place for it. But so SEO ranking, well on Google is always going to be the absolute number one driver for most businesses. And a good example is I've been doing family portraits, cakes, mesh sessions for years and over the past three years. So I've gotten a couple proposals session requests and I did the proposal sessions. I have completely fallen in love with doing proposal sessions. And I never thought that that would be like, what of all the non landscape work.

Scott:
I never thought that this would be like the thing that I would enjoy the most. And I had a couple clients tell me, like, look, you gotta, you gotta push us. Cause they're, they're obviously fun for you. And and they come out so good. And there's, I like the, I like the planning process for them. I like the spine of process. I think that's fun as a photographer to be, to be able to play a spy. But so I, I put together this landing page and every day I'm getting like five organic leads. I haven't done a lead magnet yet. I haven't done any ads for it. I'm just getting people from all over New Jersey contacting me. So I'm ranking for everything that these people are searching for. I'm ranking number one. So they're contacting me first and it's, without any effort on my part, besides making a landing page and talking about, I made a couple of videos about it, that's it just all organic things. And that's the power of, of putting out quality content, not only in your photography, but what you're putting on your site itself and on YouTube and all the different things to attract people. If you put out quality content, you're going to start ranking well because SEO, isn't just about the logistics anymore. It's about the content more than more than anything these days. So

Peter:
If I could share one tip with the audience and you probably, I know, you know, this stop, stop blogging about specific sessions and, you know, stop writing blogs and say that the Smith family wedding was awesome. Nobody's reading that even the Smith family is going to read it once. It's, it's not helpful for, you know, like that, that the SEO has changed and that is, is no longer useful to really anyone, you know, that, that kind of stuff put on social media. It's, it's not, it's not working anymore, like B be specific C or be strategic, see what people are looking for and create content that your audience or your clients are gonna want. I actually wrote, wrote an article about SEO on photography goals. I'm happy to, you know, maybe we could share the link if you want.

Scott:
I will expand on that statement though a little bit because it's okay to do them every so often. I wouldn't make it the main strategy of, of a photographer's blog, but if you take it to a new level and you're sharing some photos from a client session, but then including a behind the scenes video of their first look of their session, and you're seeing they're in, you're the person that's reading this blog article and watching this video is also seeing their actual reaction to seeing their, their, their photographs for the first time. That's a thing that's a powerful selling tool. So you can do it, but try to take it to a new level where where it's, it's less about trying to rank those, those won't rank well, but, but it's more about trying to get that that's that visitor on that, on your website to be like, I want that, I want that. Right. So there's ways that you could do it that still strategic

Peter:
Smart for you. It's more of a conversion tactic than it is an SEO play.

Scott:
Yeah. Right? Yep, exactly, exactly. What are some photo photography specific time-saving strategies for side hustle, photographers? So let's, let's start with some time-saving business.

Peter:
I automate everything I can I, I use, like I said, for, for lead generation, that's, that's automated I'm using software called sprout studio and they're, they're pretty good as far as, as automation, everything I have everything templated in there. So if somebody calls it's actually, if someone fills out one of my lead forms, they're automatically in sprout this is going to sound like an ad for them, but I really do. I really do use them and like them you know, when somebody fills out a lead form, they're automatically in, they're classified as a lead, then if they, they book, they get moved to the shoot status and everything, you know, payment contracts scheduling, everything's kind of automated through there. I think it's, you know, the average or the average client, I'm making like three clicks on the, on the software to, to send them an invoice to book the shoot.

Peter:
So I'm spending I'm trying to like that stuff is, is not time-consuming at all. I make sure that my time I do have is either on the phone with them shooting or editing the photos. And those are things that can be a time shifted. In other words, I can do them whenever you know, actually evenings. Most people want to talk in the evenings anyway, after, after business hours. And, you know, the shoot is the shoot and of course photo editing can be done anytime. So biggest thing for me is, is spending the time to learn the automation software that has been huge for me. And it is a, you know, a lot of people I think get into that and get frustrated because, you know, there's, there's the good softwares that does, that is complicated, whether it's, whether it's mail or email automation, lead gen just studio management software, it, you know, spend the time to, to it upfront, to get, get familiar with it and learn how to use it well, and I think that's going to be, that would be a big help for anyone.

Peter:
I was a little like hesitant at first to invest that amount of money upfront to, you know, you're, you're at least 50 bucks a month, I think is what, what I'm paying now. But in the beginning, that's scary when you're not bringing in a whole bunch of business, but I can say that that made, and it could be any software. It doesn't have to be the one I picked, but you know, that makes a huge difference. Being able to, to control that, that, that those repeated tasks and not have to do that every

Scott:
Time. Yeah. sprout studio is fantastic business tool for photographers overall. If anybody who is listening or watching, it wants to learn more about suppress studio. We actually had Brian Keppra, Richie on the, the CEO espresso of sprout studio on the podcast, I think two or three times. So I'll be sure to link to that in the show notes. So you can find the episodes where he gets to share his knowledge as well. And learn, you'll learn a little bit about sprout studio. It is an amazing tool. It is complex because of how much is involved, but if you need a single business tool and it has everything you need in it, right, it's doing everything you need for whether it's a full-time business or a part-time business. So you, you briefly touched on photographic time-saving techniques.

Scott:
I'm, I'm, I, I want to share one thing that I do and hopefully you can share something that you're doing. So I use a tool called optics, which is an AI based cooling tool. And there's a bunch of them on the market. I'll be testing another one called after shoot in the next few weeks. But optics has been fantastic. It saves me loads of time. And I rarely see it miss a photo that should be rated high or whatever. So I'm curious what kind of time-saving techniques or tools that you're using in your, in your business?

Peter:
Very interested in checking that actually, you, you mentioned that before we got started and I was, I was looking it up that I never knew about that, that that is something I'm going to try out. That looks really cool. So my, I mean, th this, this is going to sound like almost like a, well, of course, but I think the biggest time-saving photographically for me has been learning off-camera flash and it sounds counterintuitive. It sounds like, okay, well, you're spending more time with the flash and things like that, but what the results have been is that my time editing once, once I got over the learning curve of learning off-camera flash, of course, you know, you do got to put the time in and learn how to use it well, but once I got over that learning curve, the time I've spent editing has been like cut into like maybe 25%, because if you, if you get it, you know, and, and I, I also shoot natural light, not like I'm not like, you know, a snob about one way or the other.

Peter:
There's, there's advantages to both, but I think using off-camera flash has really changed one, the quality of the work, but also I spend so much less time editing because I have more control in the field when I'm shooting. And that has really, really helped a lot. And that's, you know, like I said, quality plus plus time, and you know, when it comes to the editing itself, that's probably the most time-consuming part. So, you know, good that good, that I've, I, you know, when the, with the off-camera flash that helps, but also the editing itself I don't, I don't think it matters what your system is, but if you, I think you need a system for editing and calling, especially, and that that's after you have sound sounds really cool. When I, you know, I've I, like you said, I teach photography, I have a course on Lightroom and things like that.

Peter:
And one of the things I talk about is having a system that gets you through the, the calling and the editing fast. And, you know, if you're, if you're shooting a lot of photos, you've professional photographer, you probably have your own system. I would say, look at that system and see where you can improve it. You know, just the simple things, like, you know, sinking your edits across multiple photos and identifying those like blocks of similar photos, having a system for calling you know, I go through and I first, first pass I go through and just all the rejects and all the ones that are out of focus, you know, missed exposure, fleshed it in fire, that kind of stuff. And, and then I, you know, I try to go fast through that and I have kind of a grading system that I use, and I don't think it matters what system you use, but having that system and being able to just sit down and say, okay, here's step one, here's step two.

Peter:
And getting through it actually matters a lot. And it's one of those simple things that I don't think, I think some people overlook because it's, it's like, oh, well, I'm just going to sit in front of light room and start editing. But when you, when you have a system and even even the, the, the actual edits themselves, I do them in phases where I'll do kind of the, the overall global edits first, then I can sync all those. And then I go back to individual edits because you can't really say, when I say individual, like you know, spot removal and, and using the brush on certain areas, things like that. I break it down like that. So I can, I can do that sync across all the, all the edits and then go back and do those spots and things like that. So having a system has, has really helped a lot. And it's kind of out of necessity, you know, having very little time usually to, to edit photos, I've kind of developed a system that works pretty quickly.

Scott:
That's great. Yeah. workflows systems whether you're a full-time or a part-time business, it's, it's super important to have those, those very structured, very, you know, down pat having, having a seamless, flawless, all those fun words because it, it really is a time saver. And, and by the way, optics can also group similar photos and you can label similar photos so that it actually save your time. But it's yeah, it's pretty incredible. So, so yeah, I mean, no matter what you're doing I, I like to say that I like having workflows for everything in life. Even when I, when I'm doing my yard work on weekends, I've got a structure to how I do everything in what order, what paths I take it take there, which it gets a little redundant, but it also makes it very efficient because you know exactly what you have to do next.

Peter:
I, I always, I always tell everyone that, you know, it seems like you're, you're limiting yourself when you have a strict workflow, but actually I think that unlocks a lot more creativity because when, you know, there's, there's certain things you have to do for every photo. As far as the, you know, just getting it, getting it right, getting it to look like a clean edit, but then it, if you can get that done fast and then focus on the more creative stuff, I think that kind of gives you more time to focus on that. It unlocks that, that creativity. So it's, I don't think it's limiting at all.

Scott:
So we're, we're getting to the end here. And I'm wondering if there's anything else that you'd like to share that we haven't talked about any any additional advice that you want to give, or we wrap it up, you

Peter:
Know, if it, especially if you're thinking about a side, side hustle get started and, you know, just, just give it a shot. It's so easy in any, any, you know, anywhere usually to, to start an LLC and you don't even need to do that right away. But I think it's, it's a great, a great thing for just, just being, you know, just in life is to have something that you, you love doing and make a business of it and see if you can do it professionally. And maybe, maybe you love it. Maybe you don't, maybe you hate doing it professionally, but give it a shot. I think for, for all of you hobbyist photographers out there and, and, you know, maybe, maybe I'm doing a disservice to, to myself as a, as a photographer, I'm creating competition, but I, I think the more, the more out there, the better you know, give it a shot and, and, you know, it's, it's a lot of fun, I think, to, to run. At least for me, it was, it's been a lot of fun to learn about business, learn about marketing, learn about SEO and, and, and run a business aside from just the photography aspect of it. And maybe, maybe that's not you, not everyone, but you know, just, just get started so easy to get started, try doing some, like I said, strategic free shoots and see, see what you can do and stretcher your creativity a little bit and you know, get, get, get going.

Scott:
Cool. Cool. So thank you Peter for joining us today. Can you tell the listeners the absolute best place to find more information about you? I

Peter:
Think if, if you want to find me you can go to photography goals.com and also there's, there's a YouTube channel photography goals. That's where I talk about all things, photography you know, we, we do lens lens reviews and, and Lightroom tutorials and just general tutorials and things like that. So that's, that's the best place to find me, but if you want to see my actual photography business and my website, you can check it out at McGregor photography.

Scott:
Awesome. So you can find the show notes and all the places where to find Peter at imagely.com/podcast/130. Don't forget to subscribe to the show on apple podcast, Spotify, Pandora, Google play, and wherever you listen to podcasts until next.