The WordPress Photography Podcast The podcast for photographers looking to learn and do more with their WordPress photography websites. Conversations tailored to making WordPress more than just a tool and more of a part of your photography business. Wed, 01 Apr 2020 22:57:52 +0000 en-US © Imagely - Podcast Episodes are Property of Imagely. WordPress is a trademark of The WordPress Foundation. Making WordPress Easy For Photographers Imagely episodic The podcast for photographers looking to learn and do more with their WordPress photography websites. Conversations tailored to making WordPress more than just a tool and more of a part of your photography business. Imagely clean The WordPress Photography Podcast Episode 100 – Celebrating Together Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:00:46 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 100
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Today we are celebrating 100 episodes of WordPress education, around 3 years of this podcast and of course, we are celebrating WordPress.

At the time of recording this WordPress 5.4 is around the corner. By the time this episode is live, WordPress 5.4 might already be released into the wild.

With 5.4 comes with a new block and a block change in the editor.

  • The new social icon block will make it extremely easy to make social follow buttons and icons for your website.
  • There will be a new buttons block which will allow for multiple buttons in one block with various of the buttons as well.

The latest post block is also getting a major update with additional styling controls and featured image display.

The block editor is also getting a tablet and mobile preview as page builders offer. That isn’t coming in version 5.4, but it’s in the works and it works nicely!

All of these things moves the block editor closer and closer to making alternative page builders less and less needed for easy design.

Here at Imagely, we are very excited about this.  In fact, we are working on a brand new theme framework for our brands which will be recommending the use of the block editor, and even using it for page designs.

We will be recommending a third-party block page builder, called Kadence, and that will remain until the WordPress core editor has enough blocks and settings to warrant not recommending a third-party plugin. The good news is we’ve done excessive code reviews and testing, and it’s by far the best block editor page builder plugin available. Kadence is free (but there is a premium version too), so you can already install it on your site and start using it even before our new theme framework is released.

To further celebrate WordPress, Scott asked a question in his WordPress for Photographer's Facebook group.

What is your favorite part about WordPress?

Here is what a few of the 2100+ members had to say.

  • Craig -  It's free. 😂
  • Angela -  Flexibility
  • Daryl -  Ease of use!
  • Linda - free and lots of options
  • Derek -  Lots of plugins
  • Faatimah -  Easy to use
  • Neil - My favorite part is how easy it is to use for a complete 
  • Adrian -  Is ease of use and flexibility and it's free and The infinite amount of plugins available to do pretty much what you want in a simple way

If you want to join our celebration and share what your favorite part of WordPress is, comment and let us know.

WordPress is already running 35% of the web. Meaning 35% of all websites are running WordPress and that is growing a lot every single year. There are constantly new website platforms that arise that come out of the word work. Some of which are for photographers specifically.

  • ShowIt
  • GoodGallery
  • Google Site
  • Square Site
  • Squarespace
  • Adobe Portfolio
  • Pixieset Sites

There are many website platforms out there, and many of which still require WordPress for some of the capabilities of the website, some of which are built on WordPress, some of which mimic what WordPress can do or at least try to and really soon we will be able to relaunch Imagely Sites and we are so excited for that because that is going to be a game-changer for the photography industry and anybody who has ever said WordPress is difficult or too time-consuming to manage and maintain. We're solving that problem and we're making it very affordable.

We are very excited to see what you are doing with WordPress and we are very excited about WordPress in general and where it is headed.


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Welcome to episode 100 my name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and today we are celebrating 100 episodes of WordPress education and around three years of this podcast. At the time of recording this WordPress 5.4 is around the corner. By the time this episode is live, WordPress 5.4 might already be here. It might be released into the wild with 5.4 comes to new core blocks. These are blocks that will be in every install of WordPress. The social icon block will make it so easy for you to share your social follow buttons and icon anywhere on your website. There were being new buttons block, which will allow you to have multiple buttons in one block with multiple configurations and variations for each button, but then there's the latest post block, which already exists in WordPress, but it's getting some improvement. It will have a little bit of additional styling end.

The ability to display featured images as well. The block editor is also getting a new tablet and mobile phone preview in the editor. This is something that other page builder plugins already offer and now it's coming to WordPress but this is likely not coming to WordPress 5.4 to probably be in WordPress 5.5 I don't know for sure that one is still sort of being created. Now all of these things move the block editor and WordPress closer and closer to making page builders less important, less needed for your web design. The block editor is getting more powerful. It's fast, it's easy and it's awesome. Now here at image that we are very excited about the block editor and the future of WordPress. In fact, we are working on a brand new theme framework for all of our brands and that we'll be recommending the use of the block editor and even using it for page designs.

We will be recommending a third party page builder plugin for the block editor. It's called cadence and this will remain until the WordPress core block editor has all the blocks and customization controls that the third party page builder plugin for the block editor has. Once the block editor is as robust, that doesn't warrant a third party block editor plugin. We will remove it, but until then we will be recommending cadence. Now the good news is that we have done extensive code review testing and we're using it in real world situations. Cadence is by far the best coated, the fastest and the most robust page builder plugin for the block editor. Now cadence is free and that's the one we will be recommending, but there is a premium version which we won't be supplying, but that's available to anybody who will want it, but because it's free, it means you can already install cadence on your site and get started using it even before our theme framework is complete and that's a beautiful thing.

Now to further celebrate WordPress, I asked in my WordPress for photographers Facebook group, I asked over 2100 people a question, what is your favorite part about WordPress? Here's what a few of those 2100 plus members had to say, Craig said it's free. Angela said flexibility. Darrell said, ease of use. Linda said free and lots of options. Derek said lots of plugins. Fatima said easy to use. Neil said, my favorite part is how easy it is to use for a complete website and Adrian said is the use and flexibility and it's free and the infamous and now amount of plugins available to do pretty much what you want in a simple way. So here at Imagely we are celebrating 100 episodes of this podcast. The podcast is not ending. We're still in the beginning. If there's something you would like to see hear from in the podcast, please just comment at 100 I want to hear from you and if you have something you'd like to share about what you love about WordPress, you can also comment with that. 100 now we're press is already running 35% of the web. 35% of all websites are running WordPress and that is growing a lot every single year. There are constantly new website platforms that arise that come out of the word work. Some of which are for photographers specifically, some of which are not in the photo industry has a ton of competition right now. You have show it, you have good gallery, you have pixie set sites, you now have square sites. You even have Google sites connected to Google my business. Even Adobe has their own portfolio plan which is for websites. There are a ton of website platforms out there, many of which still require WordPress for some of the capabilities of the website, some of which are built on WordPress, some of which mimic what WordPress can do or at least try to and really soon, I don't know how soon, but really soon we will be able to relaunch Imagely site and I'm so excited for that because that is going to be a game changer for the photography industry and anybody who has ever said we're pressed is difficult or too time consuming to manage a knowing, to manage to maintain.

We're solving that problem and we're making it very affordable. So if you would like to find out exactly when MC sites relaunches go to and you can enter your email address to find out when there's a lot that we have going on at Imagely with this podcast and beyond and we are very excited for what we can do for you. We are very excited to see what you are doing with WordPress and we are very excited about where press in general and where it is headed. Now, please remember this podcast while this called the WordPress photography podcast. It is about more than just WordPress. It is about your online presence, your online marketing, it's even about your offline presence and your offline marketing. We're talking photography business, but we always try to connect it back to your photography website. So I just want to say thank you.

Thank you for sitting through listening, whatever you're doing, running, jogging, biking, whatever it is. However, wherever, whenever you're listening or watching this podcast, thank you for doing it. Thank you for subscribing. Wherever you subscribe and I have one thing to ask. Please leave a review of the podcast in addition to your requests in your comments on, on each episode or for future episodes of review will help other photographers like yourself find the podcast and we want to be able to educate and connect with as many photographers as possible. So please, if you listen on Apple podcasts, if you listen on Spotify or Pandora, Google play, wherever you listen, leave a review. We appreciate it. that is the URL for today's episode. You can comment, you can ask questions whenever you want. You can do it at that URL. I can't wait to see you in episode one Oh one I don't know what we're going to do in one Oh one but we'll see you there.

clean no 7:55 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
The WordPress Photography Podcast – 2020 Trailer Fri, 20 Mar 2020 20:01:42 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz trailer
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This is The WordPress Photography Podcast presented by Imagely. My name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and I am your host and the Chief Community Officer here at Imagely.

This is the podcast for photographers looking to learn and do more with their WordPress photography websites. Conversations tailored to making WordPress more than just a tool and more of a part of your photography business.

With that said, this podcast goes way beyond WordPress. It is marketing, online marketing, photography websites. That is what we celebrate, teach and discuss in every episode.

Click subscribe or follow wherever you listen to podcasts.

Enjoy the show!

clean no 0:52 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 99 – 4 Questions For Your Ads Thu, 12 Mar 2020 13:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 99 Hulafrog surveyed a lot of local businesses and found that 80% of local businesses spend money on ads. However, 60% have a limited budget.

That's why we wanted to share some of the advice from Hulafrog, and our own advice, to help you determine where what, why, and how to advertise in various places.

What we discuss:

  • Why advertise?
  • Where should you advertise?
  • When should you advertise?
  • How much should you spend?


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Welcome to episode 99 my name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and today I want to talk about Facebook ads for photographers and how to really figure out where to advertise. Hula frog recently did a poll about ads and they found that 80% of local businesses that they polled are advertising but just shy of 60% of these businesses are limited on their budget. So is it a bad choice to advertise our for CIF photographers even bother advertising when really a lot of the business will come from the word of mouth that they find on Facebook and Facebook groups. Well, this is where asking a few questions comes into play and really knowing your target market, knowing your audience, why are you going to advertise? What is your goal for advertising? Why are you putting money into finding clients? Why are you doing it? Do you have an end goal?

What is your goal? Tell me. Go to the show notes at 99 and share your goal for advertising. Where are you advertising or where do you want to advertise? You see, here's the thing, because if you are a B to C photographer, then Facebook might be the perfect place and the only place maybe then they're in Google might be the only places that you want to advertise. But do you, if you are a B to B person, maybe you want to advertise on LinkedIn and Google. If your target market are moms and your targeted market are maybe makeup artists, hairdressers, maybe it is the moms, right? Mt. Moms, right? That are, they're using Pinterest. So maybe you need to be on Pinterest and Facebook. So just like anything with social media, anything where you just, should you be on LinkedIn if your target market are not on LinkedIn?

Well that's the question you should be asking yourself for advertising as well. When, when should you advertise? Should you be doing it on holidays? Should it be, do you'd be doing specific holiday ads? Should you be doing it at midnight or are your target market that demographic sleeping at midnight and then what is your budget? Because if you have a budget of $200 and it costs you $200 to get a client, and that $200 is all you get from that client, then you're breaking even. You're not making money on that. But if it costs you $25 of that $200 budget to get the client and that client is paying you $600, then of course that ad was worth it. So you have to figure that stuff out first. So I encourage you to ask yourself these questions, ask yourself all these questions and write them down and figure out exactly where, what, when, how, all of these things are they worth it for you to advertise.

Now I will say the advertising is worth it. It is worth it for most businesses, but it may not be worth it for new photography businesses. But then again, maybe it is, you need to figure that out for yourself. I can't give you the answer to that, but what I can do is help you figure it out by instructing you to ask yourself those questions. This was 99 episode 100 is coming up. I don't know what we're going to do for episode 100 I'm hoping to do something special. I really don't know. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. If you're watching this episode, you can check out the show notes at [inaudible] dot com slash podcast slash 99 be sure to comment and let me know why you are advertising what your goal is for those ads. See you in episode 100.

clean no 4:06 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 98 – Photoshop and your website with Aaron Nace Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 98

Born and raised on the quiet island of Kauai, Hawaii, Aaron Nace would be the first to tell you that his upbringing was anything but ordinary. Despite the perks of Hawaiian life, he moved with his mother, father, and two brothers to North Carolina and he obtained a college degree in Industrial Design. After college, he thought his path was clear to one day becoming an automotive or furniture designer until a trip to South America transformed his life forever. He fell in love with photography and its power to both facilitate and share adventures. In 2011, Aaron founded PHLEARN to bring free, creative education to anyone around the world.

Joke of the day:

Why did the photographer get into an argument with the curator at the art gallery? He wasn't in the right frame of mind.

Tweet This

What we discuss:

  • Compress/Optimize for Web in Photoshop/Lightroom
  • Sharpen for Web in Photoshop/Lightroom
  • Photoshop for iPad for photographers on the go
  • Previewing your images on multiple devices and screens

Where to find Aaron:

Save 20% on your annual subscription to PHLEARN using the coupon code, imagely20.

Referenced Links:


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Why did the photographer get into an argument with the curator at the gallery? He wasn't in the right frame of mind. Welcome to episode 98 my name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and I'm joined by my guest, Aaron. Nice. You've been somebody that a lot of photographers have known in the industry for quite some time between flourish and even creative life. You've done stuff with creative life a handful of times, I believe, right? That's right. Yeah. So you know, you've, you've, you've talked to trade shows, you, you've got a lot going on. You are born and raised on the quiet Island of [inaudible] and I say that right. Cool. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Quiet. Yeah. All right, cool. Aaron would be the first to tell you that his upbringing was anything but ordinary. Despite the parks of, of Hawaiian life. He moved with his mother, father and two brothers to sunny North Carolina.

Not as funny as Hawaii, but still funny. And he obtained a college degree in industrial design. And after college, he thought his path was, was clear to one day becoming an automotive or furniture designer until a trip to South America transformed his life forever. He fell in love with photography and its power to both facilitate and share adventures. And in 2011, Aaron founded learn to bring free creative education to anyone around the world. And as you've heard, it's, he's now expanded beyond learn teaching in multiple avenues. But learning is still his main mean, GoTo place to provide education. So Aaron, welcome to the show. My parents now live in North Carolina as well. So I've been down there a handful of times and yeah, I look forward to talking with you or learning what you've got to say about what we're going to be talking about today. Yeah, fantastic. Know what's going on in in your world.

Well I live in Chicago now, so we are battling through the winter as we usually do here. And right. Actually just preparing for a couple of the trips heading down to Mexico shortly and possibly looking at going to Vegas for WPI. But I just sprained my ankle unfortunately. So I'm like, am I going to be able to actually make these things? So it's a race against the clock. I'm doing everything that I possibly can to, to heal my ankle up. So I can actually go on these trips.

W especially at something like WPPI where there's, it's so much walking, it's so much on your feet. Yeah, that's a tough one because the only way to heal is to rest it, but exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

So that's, that's my life right now. It's spending a bunch of time with my leg up and hanging out on my laptop and, you know, spending time at home with my wife and my dog and just relaxing and doing the best I can to heal.

But maybe in some, maybe it's a blessing in disguise. Maybe. Maybe. Somehow you needed this little bit of a relaxation break. Probably. Yeah,

Probably. That's a good way of life telling me to slow down. Yeah.

Decompress a little bit. Exactly. Exactly. So, speaking of compressing or decompressing, I'm often on this podcast in my Facebook group and elsewhere, the topic of optimizing images for the web has come up and I have, I've had my go-to for exporting from Photoshop from, from Lightroom and using WordPress plugins to that I recommend for people to optimize their images. But I love to hear from you on how you would instruct photographers to optimize their photos from the web straight from Photoshop without the need for a third party tool.

Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting question because I actually do use a third party, so in my opinion, Photoshop can get you part of the way there. But they're, the third party tool that I use is JPEG mini. That's also what I use. Okay, cool. So you don't have to use it. But in my experience, I have not been able to replicate the results that I get out of using JPEG many through Photoshop alone. So traditionally what I would do is just go to save for web and devices from Photoshop, which is fantastic because it will allow you to automatically convert your image to SRG GB while you're exporting. And that allows you to display your images properly on the web. So if you're not exporting a at SRG B, I highly recommend doing so. And then to be honest, I run everything to JPEG mini and it cuts my final sizes dramatically.

And then I know there are like WordPress plugins and things like that to do anything additional. But that's, that's our workload. That's what we do here in Florida. You know, we created quite a bit of content and we upload quite a few, you know, JPEGs every single day to, you know whether it's Fleur magazine or one of our tutorials or our light or presets and things like that that we have on the site. We're, we're constantly uploading to the web and yeah, so bounces like file size is a big deal. And I would say any type of compression you can get, as long as it produces an image that you're happy with go for it.

Have you ever tested the output between C for web and then dropping that into, into JPEG mini versus using the JPEG mini Photoshop extension, just clicking that and exporting it? Have you ever tested the difference between the two?

I have not, actually, no. I don't have the JPEG mini a Photoshopping sension installed. I just use it as a standalone app. Right? Yup, yup, yup. But that'd be an interesting test for sure. But I'm a big fan of the app. I have the pro version of JPEG mini and what we'll do here at learn systematically is just drop entire folders. So, you know, we basically, our entire team runs off of a raid array or multiple radar rays here in our studio for local storage and backup. And then we use external cloud base storage and backup as well as you know, secondary. So what we'll do periodically is just run all of the JPEGs at that, you know, basically just drop an entire folder which may contain, you know, thousands of images, just drop the entire thing into JPEG many. And you know, I think through the years we've, we've probably saved quite a bit of space just on our own file server. So I think that there's a lot of value obviously if you're uploading the web, but also just saving space on your hard drive, it's a fantastic tool to use.

Yeah, pretty much. I pretty much do the same thing with any JPEGs. I, I, I mean with raw files you're still, you're still going to have a, you know, loads of, of storage required. But yeah, JPEG mini has definitely saved a good chunk as far as any of the JPEGs that I, that I wind up saving on the same topic of compression. Often with image compression comes many times softening of images you'll, you lose the sharpness. So I thought it'd be useful if you could share how you would recommend or what you would recommend for photographers to do inside of Photoshop or Lightroom for the web. So that when you compress that image, whether you do it out of those softwares or if something through through a JPEG menu or through a WordPress plugin, what do you, what would you recommend photographers do to make sure that image still looks Chris?

Well, I would definitely recommend sharpening your images before exporting them out of Photoshop. And my big recommendation there is try to get your image at the actual size that you would display it at. So if this is going to be, you know, 500 by 500 pixels on the web, go ahead and scale it down to 500 by 500 pixels and then do your sharpening at that size and then export it out for the web. But I don't recommend doing this to be original. So just make sure you make a copy. That way you don't accidentally save over your original and now you have a, you know, drastically smaller image than what you started with. So just duplicate, you know, your final image. Go ahead and scale it down and then sharpen and Venice ordered out. And if, you know, if through your compression, it's a little bit softer than what you'd like, just bump up the settings on your sharpening a little bit and that should displace it.

So one of the things I'm, so I'm more of a Lightroom user than a Photoshop user. One of the things that I do in light room, especially for going to WordPress because I also use imagery is Lightroom plugins that we can send right to, I can send right to my website, right from light room. Is that I, I can not only specify the size I want to, you know, export to through the publishing service, but I can turn on that sharpen for web feature in light room. I, I forgot what it's actually called, but it's, it's in that, that, that, that module that you can sharpen on export. And then I also have a code through JPEG mini while it's doing that as well, but through the JPEG mini Lightroom plugin. So as getting, you know, shrunk on export, compress the JPEG mini and sharpened right in light Lightroom that I found that works for me from light room for four. And I think it'll, it should work well for others who use a publishing service or export. I want to make a presetter or whatever it is in Photoshop. I know there's, there's, you know, unsharpened mask and there's like smart sharpening tools that are built into Photoshop. Would you recommend using anything like that or doing something more manual? Is there, is there, is one way easier than the other and more effective potentially in Photoshop?

You know, I think the benefit of sharpening and Photoshop is that you can selective sharpen certain areas, your photo, and you can use that as an editing tool to draw more attention to certain areas. For instance, when I'm exporting out portraits, I will sharpen eyes a little bit more than everything else. And that kind of brings the viewer's attention right to the subjects eyes and it basically creates a focal point for the viewer. If you're just going to blanket sharpen everything, the exact same amount, then all the tools are relatively similar. Unsharp mask works well. There's, you know, there's some great ways to do it. You can sharpen when you export as well through through Photoshop. So you know, if you're just going to do a blanket sharpen, then I would say any, any tool works well if you plan on selectively sharpening certain areas, there are a number ways to do it. My current favorite is through using an unsharp sorry for using a high pass filter on a duplicate layer. It's, I don't know, it's a little bit complicated to explain it over there without me just showing you how to do it.

But if you have a, if you have a YouTube video of it or a tutorial on flirt and be sure to get me that so I can link to that.

I'll link to it. Yeah. We have a YouTube video called how to sharpen and save for the web in Photoshop. So that's awesome. Sounds like exactly what should be a we'll link. We'll link to that. Yeah.

The next thing that I feel like hasn't been discussed enough because it's still kind of of new and unfortunately don't have a, an iPad to actually test this out. I have my iPad is a little bit older, but Photoshop for iPad is apparently now a legit Photoshop like a fairly, it is a I dunno if it's fully what you do on desktop, but apparently it is a pretty heavy duty Photoshop on an iPad. And for the nomad or travel photographers, the destination wedding photographers who don't want to travel with a laptop or any photographer who is, who is on the road a lot, they, they have options for editing workflow and that's whether it's light room, mobile, Photoshop, ProdPad affinities photo. You know, their, their their iPad or, or even some of the other smaller ones that exist. Can you talk as somebody who has experienced with Photoshop, can you talk about Photoshop for iPad for these photographers that are on the go and potentially share some workflow or editing advice for people who might be new to, to the whole idea of going with, with nothing, nothing but a but a small iPad.

Yeah, totally. Yeah, so Photoshop or the iPad was released at the time of this recording about six months ago. And I, I think at this point, you know, Photoshop or the iPad is a bit of a pared down version of what you're going to experience on the desktop. So if you're looking for a direct one to one copy of the desktop experience, I think you're going to find that it's not the same experience. It's a fantastic app for photo editing. But in my opinion, you know, if you're, if you're going to be like, okay cool, I'll just literally, I've got all my same keyboard shortcuts I've got, you know, everything's going to be in the same place. I think you're going to be in for a little bit of an awakening because it actually is like learning a new program, which in my opinion makes complete sense because it is, you know, it's on a completely different factor.

It's pretty iPad, you know, iPads or there's just a very different type of hardware than a computer. The operating system is very different. So I think they've done a fantastic job with Photoshop for the iPad. But what I've seen, there's been a decent bit of kickback in the industry because in my opinion, a lot of people were expecting, Hey, this is going to be legit Photoshop. This is like a one to one direct copy of what I'm going to be using on my desktop. And so I think a lot of people were expecting that and then found something slightly different on the iPad. So when I first started using Photoshop on the iPad, it took me maybe a day or two to kind of get used to the tools. And I would say that a large portion of the things that I do on Photoshop or the desktop are available on the iPad.

There is going to be a bit of a learning curve just in things like file management. You know, like what you do on a desktop computer is very different from how you access your files on an iPad. And I think we're entering a cool time in which that, you know, is a possibility. You know, when I first started using iPads or tablets, you know, years ago that wasn't even a possibility. You could not put a PSD file on your iPad a few years ago, you know? So the fact that you have that option now and to bring that file and start editing it and save over the cloud, I think we've come a long way and I'm personally excited to see where this software goes in a few more years. I think we're at the early stages and just like with every other technology at the early stages, like it's, it takes a little bit of time to really develop the true potential of a piece of software.

And, you know, Photoshop has been so near and dear to us for many, many, many years. And I, you know, porting that over the iPad I'm sure is been a difficult task. But not only that, you know, it's, it's just that it's infancy. So I think if you kind of accept that, you know, that's where we're at in the stage of product development and, you know, understand that it's going to continue to develop over time and, you know, more and more of those features that we love are going to be, you know, included in the program then, you know, that's kind of the way I think about it is, you know for, for doing things relatively quickly and relatively relatively simple edits, I would say, you know, go for it for sure. You know, when on the go, I think light room for the iPad is fantastic.

I think that they nailed that right out of the gate and you know, if I'm going to do some light editing, some like maybe some sketching, some like, like compositing and things like that in Photoshop on the iPad is fantastic. But personally if I'm going to get in and still do my you know, very involved composite images that take hours and hours and have many different layers and you know, this is a general like you know, client image or a, you know, a, a work image. Generally I'll still do that on my computer for a number of reasons. I'll, you know, generally have like a larger screen that I'm working on and a keyboard with keyboard shortcuts and I've walked them a tablet and you know, a computer that has a lot of processing power. So I think it really depends on where you're, what you're doing with your time.

You know, if you're, if you're out and about and you have some time to, you work on your images and all you have with you is your iPad, then it's a fantastic tool. You know, if you have your laptop with you and it runs Photoshop, well you know, you could use that too. If you happen to have a desktop around, you could use that too. So yeah, I think that's kinda like the general order for me in terms of software. Like if there is a powerful large screen computer around, personally I'm going to gravitate towards that just about every time. And then work my way down as my possibilities are limited. So if I only have my phone with me, that's what I'm going to be using to edit. So I think using it not necessarily as like, Hey, this is a direct replacement for what I use on the desktop, but like, Hey, guess what, if I have my iPad with me, I can do photo editing. And I think viewing it like that is you know, is just kind of a a way to enjoy each piece of software. You know, no matter what the form factor is on

One, one thing you briefly brought up was light room mobile and how spot on it is. I have to say that has been around for what, three years now? Maybe somewhere around there. I, I agree. That light room mobile is absolutely incredible. I use it on my iPad and on my iPhone. And if I don't have a client in studio, I am actually calling and doing basic edits on my iPad or my iPhone from the comfort of the couch or my bed instead of staring at a, you know, my computer screen and, and whatnot for, for the relaxation aspect of it, for the change of scenery of it just a different, it's a different experience and it can in ways I find that it has actually made me more creative by looking at it in different, in a different way on different devices and, and whatnot.

But the, for me, the best part of it is the calling process, just being able to just relax. Totally. So but I, I love it. And then being able to quickly grab a photo that I want to share on and on Instagram, that was from a you know, a professional camera versus an iPhone. And, and you know, it's just so, it's so beautiful. So I could actually see from, from the way that you're explaining Photoshop for iPad, I could actually see that the two of them combined could be more useful than just Photoshop alone, Zachary intentionally, unless you're not a photographer and you're a digital artists cause then then maybe Photoshop rod pad's a better replacement than procreate for some people who, you know, just are our digital painters versus photographers. So that's, it's interesting. It's interesting. I, I, the only time I've ever touched Photoshop for iPad, the, this new version on a new iPad is when I'm actually at the Apple store. So so it's a, it's interesting, that's really what we were planning on discussing today. I mean, do you, do you want to bring up anything that that you think photographers should know about images and the web or, or or anything related to this, anything that you think that photographers in this day and age and know about that isn't discussed that much? I'd love to have you you know, on the fly of course bring up something.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. You know, I think that as long as you're doing your compression correctly, I would say also, you know, just be sure to look at your images on multiple different devices. You know, when I'm going to export an image out, let's say to my portfolio website or Instagram or put it on the web I always make sure to, you know, do my edit on whatever device I'm at. Let's say it's a desktop computer, I'll send that over to my iPad, I'll send it over to my phone and I'll look at it on multiple different devices in, in multiple different types of lighting as well and see how it looks in different conditions. Oftentimes it's something that looks great on the desktop is maybe a little bit too dark on an iPad or an iPhone. So you make, want to brighten it up or sharpen things like that. So you know, keep in mind that you kind of have to build images for many different types of screens these days. And I think if you in your images on multiple different screens of different form factors before you publish them is a great way to make sure that you're going to be happy with you know, all of these different screens and then whoever's viewing your images is going to get the best possible experience from, you know, no matter how they're looking at your images.

I think that's extremely great advice. And I think I want to share a quick tip on how people can do this easily. Whether they're using something like [inaudible] or mobile or not Google drive completely free unless you want to pay for it, then you could pay for it. But you start out with 15 gigabytes for free, which is a really nice thing. And you can export your image from Photoshop light room on one, whatever software you're using. You can export your, your photo and throw it into Google drive folder. Now if you're on Android, Google drive is basically built into your devices, right? All you gotta do is open up Google drive and your image will be there. So you can view it on any Android device. If you have an Android TV, you'll be able to view it there. I don't know if there's a Google drive app, but there's Google photos.

There's a bunch of different ways that you could do this for iOS users, iPhones, iPads, if you install the Google drive app, not only can open it in Google drive, but it actually, Google drive app integrates with Apple files, so now it's in the Apple files ecosystem, which means you could open it in any app. Basically that any app opens a photo. You can open that photo and view it on your phone, whether it's just or just through Apple files or if you want it to load it in Instagram, you can literally load it in Instagram from Google drive through Apple files. So that's what I would say. If you don't have Lightroom mobile to pull it up on your Apple TV and your Android devices and your iPads and stuff, just use Google drive because it's free and it's so deeply integrated with everything.

Yeah, it's a fantastic piece of software. Yeah. And I think that, you know, that just speaks to the time that we're living in, you know, cloud, cloud based storage is become, you know, the de facto, you know, format. Especially if we're, you know, doing things like transferring through our different devices. Obviously, you know, larger form storage, things like radar rays and you know, like large hard drives. They still have their place. But I think the more and more we're moving towards cloud storage, like Google drive is fantastic. I use airdrop a lot. I think it's just like super easy. I'm pretty much sold my soul to Apple at this point, you know, like so, you know, I tend to airdrop things around, but yeah, whatever you're comfortable with, you know, just getting your image on a few different screens is going to really help out, you know, creating a better experience for the user.

No, not only for like, you know, how's the crop look, but the colors, right. Every screen's going to have a different color. And you know, you might think that your skin tones are good on one screen cause your, you know, your, your iMac or whatever your Dell laptop is a or is, is calibrated. And then you go to an iPad and you're like, what? You know, so it's, it's a really good idea. I'm glad you brought that up. I just want to say thank you, Aaron for joining today. I'm glad that we're able to get you on the show and tell the listeners the absolute best place to find more information about you and flirt.

So if you want to check out a we have hundreds and hundreds of free tutorials teaching Photoshop and light room and photography. Really, you know, we've been creating tutorials weekly for over 10 years. So just about anything you could possibly want to learn on any of these categories we have for free on [inaudible] dot com we also have a subscription service on flirt with more advanced tutorials. So if you're considering going into the professional route or just want to make, have your images stand out, you know, if you feel like your images could just use a little bit something more, but you're not quite sure what that is there's a huge amount of potential that you can access within post-processing. And we teach all of those things as a part of from pro. So I would say, you know, if you're interested in learning Photoshop and hanging out with me, you know, is the number one place, but no matter what platform you're on, if you're on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or YouTube we also have a pretty good presence there as well.

So that's a Fleur and it's P H learn, so P, H L, E a, R N, and yeah, if you want to follow up my personal life on Instagram, it's a K Naser, a K N as in Nancy, a, C E R. There, you'll find, you know, everything from my personal photography to my adventures and a lot of my day to day antics things like I really enjoyed cooking for instance. So I'll, I'll post a lot of my posts, a lot of my creations on the grams, so I have a lot of fun with that. And if you want to interact with me and chat, that's a fantastic place to do. So

Sometimes even photos of you in an ER room.

I know, man. Yeah. Can you believe it? I have like here, look, we're on video so I can just put this up right now. Here we go. Oh, you should make, make the same fat face you're making an Instagram. Yeah. Obligatory boot shot. Yeah, it was, I was exercising at my house the other day and rolled my foot, you know, kind of the, the wrong way out. And luckily it didn't. I was really concerned that I broke a bone. We went to the emergency room, they took x-rays, no broken bones, thankfully. But I did sprain some of the ligaments in my foot. So it's probably somewhere between two to four weeks of wearing a boot and then, you know, taking it real nice and easy after that. But I've been doing my best and my wife Katie is just an absolute angel. She's the best and she's been taking care of me and my, my sorry, self that can't even, you know, it's amazing what you can't really do very well when you got a boot on and you're not supposed to put any pressure on her. Like even just very, very simple things like, you know, putting on your pants becomes difficult. So I'm super thankful to have Katie by my side cause she's she's, she's just fantastic.

Last summer my she was, she was four at the time. She's now five. My daughter broke her elbow. She broke her arm, but it was like right at the elbow. Oh boy. Three days before going to the beach for a week talking about being, you know restrained while you're a whiter you know, in a cast or something or a boot that was rough. That was rough. Literally being at the Jersey shore for, for a week straight and not able to get in the waters. We got her, we actually splurged on a surfer, created a cast cover so that she could go in the ocean. It was like heavy duty silicone rubbery stuff and like this like plunger that he would suction all the air out and it worked. It was just you know, annoying. And every 30 minutes you have to take it off so you don't lose circulation in your lens of course. But, but she, she went into the ocean, her arms stay dry the whole week and no sand. It takes know, blocks

Sand as well, which is nice. Wow. That's pretty amazing actually. I had no idea that that was an option. Yeah.

Yeah. So if you in the next four weeks have to go in the [inaudible].

Yeah. Thankfully I've just got one of these air casts on that you can take off and on as you need. So I am able to still take

Showers, which I'm very thankful. I'm sure your wife's thankful for that too. So Aaron and his team were, were very nice to offer a 20% off to the podcast listeners 20% off PHLEARN's annual subscription. So if you are interested in signing up for the paid membership, you can do so and just go to the show notes and you'll have the coupon code there. And you'll be able to grab that and get 20% off. And that is a really nice deal. So if you're thinking about it, take advantage of that offer. So you can find the show notes where to find aaron all the places at and don't forget to subscribe to the show on Apple podcast, Spotify, Pandora, Google play, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you again, Aaron. See you next time. Thank you. See you next time.

clean no 30:54 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 97 – Develop and Focus Your Photo Business with Alex Vita Thu, 13 Feb 2020 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 97

Alex Vita is the man behind ForegroundWeb. He started many years with photography, and has been through the struggles of finding work, he did a bunch of weddings, had a portrait studio and learned to build photography websites on his own. Since then he became a successful freelance website designer who has helped over 200 photographers build their online presence through a custom-designed website and has offered consultations for photographers to maintain their sites themselves. Not only does Alex have a great eye for web design, the talent to put those designs into effect, but he understands photographers and enjoys WordPress.

Joke of the day:

Why can't you find good photography jokes? They haven't been developed yet. 

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What we discuss:

  • How photographers sometimes obsess about SEO while ignoring user-experience on their sites
  • Optimizing images for performance
  • Creating a sustainable blogging practice
  • How photographers can differentiate themselves in saturated markets

Where to find Alex:


Referenced Links:


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Scott: Why can't you find good photography jokes they haven't been developed yet. Welcome to episode 97 my name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and I'm joined by my guest, Alex Vieta. Alex, welcome to the show. I'm glad to finally have you on, but trying to get you on for a while so we're doing it.

Alex: Hi Scott. Nice to be here.

Scott: Alex is the man behind foreground web. He started many years ago with photography and it's been through the struggles of finding work. He did a bunch of weddings, had a portrait studio and learned to build photography websites on his own. Since then, he became a successful freelance website designer who has helped over 200 photographers build their online presence through a custom designed website and has offered consultations for photographers to maintain their sites all on their own. Not only does Alex have a great eye for web design, the talent to put those designs into effect, but he understands photographers and enjoys WordPress. So perfect guest for the show.

Alex: Well, why do you know? And you've reminded me that my camera is gathering dust on my shelf over there. So just do this now. Yeah, yeah.

Scott: Maybe, maybe, maybe you should set a reminder like once a month, just pick it up, go out and dust them off so to speak. Quite literally. So, so what's going on with you? You've always got something going on. I know you have a course. Did you just launch it or is it still

Alex: So on the launch process, it's a course on blogging, specifically written for photographers. I just see it as an under utilized tool that many photographers don't know how to use. And I'm writing a course on that. It's text only and I'm applying to launch it in a couple of weeks as of recording this and yeah. Awesome. Other other projects, other articles, always busy with a web design services as well. That make takes up most of my time and yeah. Exciting.

Scott: Awesome. Yeah. You know, so I'll be sure to link to the the course in the show notes at least if it's not if it's not launched by the time that this airs, I'll at least have a link to where people can learn more about it for when it does launch. So be sure to please make sure you get me that link, including the shadows. So blogging on that topic. I also teach a little bit of a blogging strategy in one of my own courses on lead generation. And part of that process is SEO and SEO is a topic I feel like it gets whispered about in the, in the industry. I mean, we have people like Corey Potter who are pushing hard for photographers to get better at it and he does a really good job at teaching it.

Scott: And I feel like it, it, it randomly pops up in the foreground, pun like around the big trade shows. Like there's, there's usually the same person constantly talking about the same specific SEO tactic, which may be outdated at this point at all. The big trade shows. And there's, and it's, I feel like the industry might be in some ways too focused on, on SEO and, and, and not so much about the user experience. And I feel like there's a fine line between the two. So I'm wondering what your take is on SEO versus user experience. Because I, I never hear user experience discussed at trade shows

Alex: Or really have quite a weird experience and relationship with SCO. Because there's high demand in ACO stuff. I added I think a couple of years ago an SEO audit on my website as a service and I got requests from photographers and the feeling every time is that they were coming to me with an obsession for SEO when they were having huge, many other mistakes on their websites. The design was ugly functionality problems performance issues, everything to do with user experience, but they were trying to work on SEO only. That was their main focus. And I don't it, it got me thinking why are photographers so obsessed? And the conclusion I came to was that SEO is kind of, is simpler to tackle. It's an easier target to aim at. I'm not saying it's easy to do, it's difficult to do good SEO work, but it's an easier target to aim at because it's, it can be easily measured. You just look at your traffic and say, okay, more traffic, more profit. It's that easy. But, and to me it's, I, I try to coin the term SEO procrastination, right? It's doing meaningless SEO technical stuff to try to avoid more, more meaningful work, which is to improve the design on your website, to think about what your target audience is how to position yourself in industry, things like that. That's my position with SEL and I, I have to refuse SEO audits for photographers because they need to do more important work first.

Scott: Right? Yeah. You know, it's it's kind of this thing like you could rank number one for every topic and keyword that you want to rank well for. But if somebody comes to your site and they're just confused, and the, or the site's hideous or let's say, you know, one of the, one of the one of the big things with, with WordPress or just web in general is a website's themes. WordPress themes. They usually have tons of customization for colors. And it's great because you can make basically any design you want by changing a color, right? But, but at the same time, your customer, you know, let's say Imagely themes, right? So the customer can go ahead and they can, they can, they can just make it bright purple and orange right next to each other. And then, you know, now they just ruined a beautiful design, right? So in some ways it's great. It's great to have customization in some ways. It actually could cause more, more, more problems. And if somebody, if you're ranking well somebody comes to your site and they're seeing bright purple next to a bright orange and it's just a pastel or neon website or whatever, you know, it could, it could be such a turnoff and you won't get the customers even though you have the greatest.

Alex: Yeah. So in business terms, if you, if you call it a funnel, I'm not fond of this term, but it's the same thing. They have a leaky funnel, right? They try to put more people at the top, which is what SEO is supposed to help with, but then the website is just horrible in many other ways and the losing, and that's where I feel UX user experience comes into play. And I don't think it's separate from ACO. In fact, all the signals that Google is giving to the industry is that SEO is actually good UX. If you do that, your website will rank better because, and Google takes notice of all the browsing behavior, the browsing habits that your users have on your websites. It takes notice and then it tracks you better. But it's not just a number you can track and try to optimize. So it's more intangible. That's why people avoid it. Yeah.

Scott: Yeah. You know, like a good example of this is Google is now in a mobile first search platform, right? So they're going to rank people or sites better that are ready for mobile. And so that's a, that's a user experience thing, right? Somebody come to your site and they're on an iPhone or an Android phone and, and your site looks like it's a desktop computer and super tiny. It's not gonna work well. It's not gonna work well as a, as a conversion process and whatnot. And then in turn will potentially rank lower. And one of the things related to mobile and just user experience in general are fast loading images. And we here at Imagely we've done extensive testing of the best image compression plugins for WordPress as well as standalone apps for, at least for Mac. I don't have a windows computer to test that, but we've come to find that JPEG mini is the best for desktop for a combination of compression and image quality. But for WordPress, image of Phi in short pixel are by far the best for for WordPress plugins. And I'm curious of what your thoughts are on image optimization, whether it's in general or or plugins.

Alex: I'm a big fan of both short pixel and Imagify. I use them both. I mean one of them. And I'm a big proponent of image optimization because we're talking about photography websites. They're always image heavy. Performance is such a big factor these days and I think you'd be kind of hitting two birds with one stone cause you're improving SEO as well. Google has confirmed that it's a ranking factor and also user experience on mobile too, on desktop everywhere. Website should should load fast and it says it's, photographers are sometimes they care too much about okay. Visual impact images should be large and beautiful and as high quality as possible, but the website performance suffers and it's not that difficult to do. There are some plugins to help with like the ones you mentioned, they take a lot of the work from the photographer.

Alex: The, the really, that's why I'm a fan of where press for this. We can name many platforms for photography websites that for which you can't, you cannot really do too much about in terms of image optimization. The com as they come, right. Photo shelters, SmugMug Squarespace Wix, they have some recommendations on their health pages, but you can't do too much. Whereas with WordPress and plugins, well you can do lazy loading. So images that are below the fold, they load a synchronously. You can generate next gen images, web be versions of images and deliver them automatically, right? You can limit image dimension. So when you try to upload a high res image, the sites limits it to 2000 pixels of however much you set it automatically so you don't overwhelm the server and things like that all done with a plugin behind the scenes. That's why a fan of WordPress. Yeah,

Scott: Yeah. You know, and I was actually going to bring up the whole web P thing because you know, so for anybody who doesn't know what web P is, it's basically did Google make it, do you know, is it Google who made or it just an open source?

Alex: I don't know if they made it but they, they recommended I think it's becoming the winner.

Scott: Yeah, they recommend. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So web P if you're familiar with like let's say a, I'll just compare it to something everybody's probably familiar with. Let's say you have an iPhone and, and your iPhone in your camera app, you can now set it to as apples. Their, their space, their file optimized space saving file type instead of a JPEG. This is basically the same thing but for the web. And if you turn this on inside of image of fire short pixel or any image compression plugin that offers this, you can actually have it display the web P version for when the browser supports it or the JPEG version when the browser does not support it. And by the way, I think even P and G is can be converted to web P files as well. So it's not just JPEGs, but the beautiful thing is your site will load faster with web P and your, your site visitors won't see a quality loss just because the file type is just better optimized for a smaller size.

Scott: And that's really the simplest way to put it. But that for browsers are not wippy capable like internet Explorer. And I think Safari too, they still get the regular JPEG version. Right. And also when the plugin tries to convert it to web B and the outcome is not smaller, the convert, the optimization doesn't work. It's, it's counsels. It does still delivers the smaller file. Correct. Yeah. And so, so the browsers, I think Firefox supports it. I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure it does. Chrome, Google Chrome of course does end for when, for a windows users, if you are a fan of, of internet Explorer or Microsoft edge, the new Microsoft edge, which is now built on Google is chromium platform will also support it. So now on windows you've got either Chrome or, or, or the new Microsoft edge. That's a beautiful thing.

Scott: Opera. Rob Rosser is also on chromium now. So basically all of the webs browsers will kind of be on the same standard, which is both good and bad. It's kind of like a month monopoly. But yeah, as a web designer it's better because easier to design across polocrosse platform. Yeah. You know I have a love hate relationship with Google Chrome. I love it because of how much allows me to do, I hate it because it is so super resource intensive and that drives me bonkers. Like every extension you add, it's running like a mini app in the background all the time. Can't stand complain about processors. I remind them of internet Explorer and yeah. So don't complain. Yeah. Or yeah. Or Netscape. Netscape. Was that the yeah, the one that, yeah. So I mean you can even go back, like AOL is built in browser and that was pretty bad too.

Scott: Anyway. Yeah, we are. Yeah, we are. So so many photographers blog for the sake of blogging with no regard for what they're actually publishing. Like for example, a hundred photos from a wedding, which there's like a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of value in there because you're showing your work but under photos is going to slow down your site big time. And also there really is very little value because you can show five and you're of the best for the wedding, you know, do just as good as a hundred from a wedding. But they don't usually think of the positive or negative impact from these. And they think that no matter what a blog post helps them, helps their SEO, helps, whatever. Can you share some thoughts on, on a sustainable blogging practice?

Alex: Blogging? Yeah, I'd say it doesn't always help if photographers don't do it. Right. mistakes I've seen are maybe some photographers are blogging only for themselves, which is bad because then it becomes kind of an online journal with irrelevant content and just random photos or I've noticed they're trying sometimes to blog only for SEO purposes. Instead of trying to provide value for their audience and that type of text becomes overly optimized. It become, it sounds fake, it's not share worthy and so forth. The example you gave with photographers like dumping a hundred photos in a blog post I think that that's mainly used in the wedding photography industry. Yeah, scroll down a lot. Just as a simple user experience trick would be to have some sort of gallery there with thumbnails and you can click on them to open in a Lightbox view as a slideshow.

Alex: At least you don't have to scroll all the way down. And another big mistake is the main blog index page shouldn't be all the blah, all the blog posts, one below the other full content. They should be just excerpts of the blog post. So it's, yeah, but back to blogging in general, it's, it takes time. It's not as straightforward practice. That's why people avoid it. Many photographers told me they don't have time to blog. It's too intensive. But I guess there's also some fear involved over there and they don't realize how it can help them. And I think blogging is useful in two ways. One for photographers selling services, it's kind of a direct sales strategy. Like they write blog posts, but they mentioned the services in there. They explain what they can do or use some storytelling in there and not just them photos and in a list. And that's that way they promote their own services. That's kind of a direct method. Or if the blog posts are on other topics, it's kind of an indirect marketing tactic because it just inspires trust. You know, on the

Scott: Web you might need five or 10 occurrences of your brand for your audience before they remember, remember you and they think of you. So just getting more out there for consistencies indirectly helps. Yep. Yeah. you know, regarding the, the blog index page I want to just point out that most, most, cause not all, but most WordPress themes now, we'll give you an option. I would say most modern, you know, updated all the time where press themes we'll give you the option to either take it from a [inaudible] sort of standard blog format to a beautiful image, rich excerpt, rich yeah, well-designed in grids of blog posts or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So no matter where you are in the world and you and I are in two very different places of the world. There was another photographer a mile or less away that does exactly what you do.

Scott: No matter what type of photography you do, there's somebody does the same exact thing potentially using, using the same exact location as well. You share clients locations and many times even the same equipment end software. So how do you recommend for photographers to differentiate themselves in their, in their saturated market? First thing is to not try to differentiate themselves by price. This is as Seth Godin put it, the race to the bottom, right? Yeah, you try to lower prices to try to outrank the competition and that's not a good way. The solution in one word to me is positioning. It's, it's maybe a vague word word for some people, but it's trying to find a way to differentiate yourself through some means. Now, in what way to differentiate. It's, it's hard to, this is the million dollar question, right? It's, it's hard to create your own style, right?

Scott: To become a famous photographer overnight. That's difficult. So a simpler solution is to carve out a narrower specialty for yourself to try to find some sort of vertical or horizontal positioning for your business. If, let's say if you're a portrait photographer, you could try to only take portraits of pregnant mothers or only senior citizens, and that becomes your, your own niche, your own specialty, and you become an expert in that field. Or that's vertical positioning, right? If you target a specific type of audience, our Zantel positioning would be, let's say you're only shooting formal studio for anybody, but in that style or only group photos, group portrait photos that's hard as mental positioning. So trying to carve out some sort of niche for yourself where there's less competition that that way you can, you can get more, more clients. I can give you more examples. So wedding photographers can only shoot gay weddings for example, or they can shoot only weddings in a kind of a black and wide cinematic look. I've seen photographers do that and they're successful. Or if you're, if you're shooting architecture, why not become an expert in hotel chains and only do that or things like that. Trying to carve out a niche and it's, and it's easier and you can do kind of a hybrid approach, both vertical and horizontal. It's, it's more difficult, but it can be done.

Scott: And I think another approach is to show the value that you have, not only differentiate yourself in the ways that you explained, but also show the value that you, that you offer to your clients. So in the, in an episode I did with Chris Scott from Swift galleries and the print maker system he talked about, and I think there's a brilliant, I implemented in my own business in certain areas, but Mmm. He's a big proponent of in person sales. And he does this to, to it too to create beautiful wall art for wedding clients. And so one way that you can add, show your value, add the value and show your value is to actually promote the fact that if you do wall art, that you do wall art, right? That you can do this custom wall art to your client's actual walls and to show the value on your site besides in just text, is that portfolio that's on that page showing your wall art is not just photos of your clients.

Scott: It's not just your weddings, not just your families. Whatever it is, it's actually photos of your client's walls with your client's photos on their walls. That is going to set yourself way up love, at least in this John rhe right. If you do this sort of thing, this is going to set yourself way above the person that's a mile away that just delivers digitals. That doesn't care about print method. You're simply more of an expert because it's a social proof, right? You can see the photos on their wool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yup, yup. And if you're, if you're just getting, let's say, let's say you like this idea and you want to get going you don't have to, and you don't have a client whose wallet that you have, you know, actual examples on, you can use stock images and mock it. It's not the end of the world.

Scott: If you do that, you can actually use something like Swift galleries or Fundy software or, or sprout studio, any of these systems that offer the mockup function. And you can actually use their images that they have and just download it and put that on your site there. They're telling you to do this actually. So it's not like you're doing this illegally, you know, they're telling you to do this. This is how you're going to sell. So anyway, if you, if you don't already have examples, you have an option to to create one. So so I wanna I wanna before we close up, I want to see if there's anything else you'd like to share about anything we talked about or anything else that we haven't brought up yet.

Alex: I don't know. I guess I'm, when I'm working with photographers [inaudible] I do consulting sometimes and we usually end up talking about intangible stuff, not technical stuff at the end of the cause because I noticed they get stuck with fear with how they, how they show themselves. They feel they don't have a voice. The lack courage to try something new. But I don't know. That's really difficult to deconstruct now. Yeah, it's, it's still, it's still a hard business because of all the competition. It takes courage, but that's why try to differentiate yourself in some way helps. Otherwise it's just a saturated market and all the photographers are, I feel are suffering. That's the main idea I see in all my consulting calls. They're, they're sighing there. It's, it's difficult because cheaper photographers are around the corner. It's,

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. You know, that that topic, the saturated market topic and the, and the, the photographers in your saturated market that are low balling their prices is a topic that I have been talking about with many photographers and web designers for the, for the past couple of weeks in various calls. And, and and whatnot. And it's an interesting topic that I don't think there it might be obvious, but I don't think there's one Mmm. One answer, one solution to this problem. I think that as an industry, the photographers who care more about this problem need to need to have these discussions more often to find all the solutions and heck, make a list of all the solutions because you know, it, it's, it's, it's so tricky. And I feel like this problem will never go away. So all we can do is constantly step up and step up and step up and, and rise above all these other people who are making it harder on us to do the end is more than enough business for, for for, for the people who want to sell a little and dual high volume versus, you know, a good, a good volume

Alex: And, and make more money per session. So, but they need to deconstruct their business to try to change the path of their business. Actually I, I'm doing a big research project. I'm still in the works. I'm trying to review the top 100 most popular photography websites out there. Right. So all the household names that everyone knows about and tracking various stats in a big spreadsheet, and those websites have huge mistakes on them. Right. Really broken pages, poor SEO, poor performance. Yeah. They're still hugely popular. Why? So don't obsess over technical stuff that much when you're going in the wrong direction. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait to see that. [inaudible] Would tell people, Hey, most famous photographers are doing this. You should do the same. But it ends up being, yeah, it's showing the opposite. You can be successful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Scott: You know. And, and, and at Imagely, we are constantly, cause we're, you know, we're we're in a pretty competitive business as well. And we're constantly reviewing how we rank for certain keywords and for certain brands of ours and certain products of ours. And it's so interesting when we see competition that are actually doing things that Google says, we'll get you banned from Google and they're ranking number one. Like, you know, so it's, it's, it's what, what are we're, we're constantly examining what are they doing besides us. One shady thing that they should be banned for. How are they still ranking, number one, what are they doing that we could replicate and then do better? So I feel like that that is something that you shouldn't just look at the SEO. You have to look at everything else that's going on. They could be doing one little thing for user experience that is

Alex: Making them above right. In, in ranking wise, at least business wise, they probably are not doing as well, but, but Reiki wise they're doing something to game the system. But yeah, it won't last long if they're doing shady stuff. Yeah, yeah,

Scott: Yeah. Unfortunately it's been like 10 years Of this.

Scott: It's kind of crazy. Almost 10 years I guess. So I want to say thank you, Alex for joining today. I'm glad that we got you on and that we got, you got to share some of your insights with the listeners and viewers.

Scott: I'm going to put every place to find you and of course your blogging course in the show notes. But if you can tell listeners the absolute best place,

Alex: Well, I need more information about that is on my website, foreground web dot F O R E Ground That's where I have all my [inaudible] periodicals, my newsletters and freebies, and they can see my web design services that they need. Kind of one-on-one help.

Scott: Awesome. So you can find the show notes where to find Alex at and don't forget to subscribe to the show on Apple podcast, Spotify, Pandora, Google play, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time.

clean no 30:58 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 96 – Branding yourself then starting over years later with Jason Groupp Thu, 30 Jan 2020 14:00:10 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 96
Jason Group

If you've ever met Jason Groupp, it was most likely a life-changing experience. You won’t forget his GQ ready outfit, with the perfectly balanced bow tie. Hailing from NYC, he shot lots of weddings around the globe and is the founding member of IHNY. Jason ran the halls of WPPI for a few years, then moved to St. Louis to study the fine art of brisket bbq rub. After a 6 year hiatus as an entrepreneur, he's decided working for others isn't for him. With the camera back in hand and a new venture to help photographers he’s back in his happy place helping to keep the industry he loves so much stronger than ever.

Joke of the day:

Why did the photographer get into an argument with the curator at the art gallery? He wasn't in the right frame of mind.

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What we discuss:

  • The importance of building your brand
  • The continued “maintenance” of the messages you put out there
  • Starting over at age 50
  • 1 on 1 education at The Groupp

Where to find Jason


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Scott: Why do the photographer get into an argument with the curator at the art gallery? He wasn't in the right frame of mind. Welcome to episode 96. My name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and I am joined by my guest Jason Groupp. I've known Jason for many years. We met originally, I don't know if you remember this. We met originally when I was working for Mack world by warranty and in the retail store they have in New Jersey. And you came in to have some of your Canon camera's repaired. So that's how we met originally when I worked at Mack Camera and video service in Springfield. Oh my God. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's how we first met. That was a long time ago. If you've ever met Jason Groupp, it was most likely a life changing experience. You won't forget his GQ ready outfit. And if you're watching this, you will see what I'm talking about with the perfectly balanced bow tie hailing from New York city.

Scott: He shot lots of weddings around the globe and is the founder of IHNY and why, which you'll learn about. Yeah, a little bit. Jason ran the halls of WPPI for a few years, then moved to st Louis to study the fine art of brisket, barbecue rub, which sounds delicious. After a six year hiatus as an entrepreneur, he decided working for others isn't for him with the camera back in his hand and a new venture to help photographers. He's back in his happy place, helping to keep the industry he loves so much, grow stronger than ever. So welcome to the show, Jason. I'm happy to to chat with you today. This is going to be a really fun discussion.

Jason: Well that's a lot of pressure, but okay. Thanks for having me on and it's good to see your face. It's been a long time and yeah, Jersey strong.

Scott: Yeah, for sure. So, so what's called, I mean, I've mentioned a few things that you've got some things in the works and, and, and whatnot. First can you, can you share what IHN Y is for anybody who doesn't know and then tell us what's going on with you otherwise.

Jason: Sure. So you know, a quick history on that bio that you just, you, you would just introduce me to. So I ran a studio called IHA and my I heart New York, I heart New York photography. And it was a, a lots of weddings and the IHN Y kind of came out of, we were doing lots of engagement sessions and you know, featuring New York city is the backdrop. New York city is such a, is is, is my town and, and you know, the place that I grew up in and from when I was a little kid. And you know being there, you know, I really got to Oh, the ins and out in New York. And I started, you know, really creating these engagement sessions that, you know, featured this heart and soul of, of the my clients. We kind of expanded into like tourism and families and we found ourselves shooting people from all over the world.

Jason: I'm doing these mini engagement sessions and it kind of blossomed from there. The, the guys who run it now have kind of taken that to a new level and I still bounce in and out as, as the founder, they call me and you know, advise them and it's amazing to see what they've done. They do hundreds of sessions a year featuring New York city stats. That's what I IHN wise, sorry, I have, I've got a cup and a half of coffee on me, so I want to talk like new Yorker now. So from there I was really, really super duper fortunate to get offered a position at WPI. I also worked on photo plots in New York. And it was a really, really amazing experience to work with so many photographers across 55 countries doing it in Las Vegas and in New York city.

Jason: And it was, it was a real dream job to work for, for them create, helping to create their conference and help with some of the direction of that. From there I took a job out here in st Louis, moved my family out here. We were looking for something you know, to raise my kids in a different atmosphere. And I was looking to kind of slow things down a little bit. Wanted the, you know, the dream of buying like a nice big house and, you know, out in the suburbs and I was looking for a change. We love st Louis. It's a, it's a great city. I've met some amazing photographers. It's been great from knowing all these people in the East coast and now getting to know people in the middle has been, has been really, really neat. So that's, that's what I'm doing now. And then, you know, we can kind of get into, you know, what I'm doing now.

Scott: You and I both feel it's important to build your brand, of course, and, but not only as a photography business, but, but, but as a personal brand, right. You're, you're known in the photo industry outside of just being a photographer an educator an entrepreneur, a leader. So can you share some of your thoughts on, on building a brand? What, what are your thoughts on that? The importance of it?

Jason: I mean, you know, I think, you know, when you, when you're building a brand, it needs to be, the easiest thing to do is, is, is one of the things about your personality that shines. What are, what are the things that is unique to yourself that you know, is, you know, calls to you. And usually they're right in front of you. So, you know, I'm, I started wearing a bow tie to weddings many, many years ago. And you know, it was kind of out of a joke to start, but you know, everyone loved the graying. I'm really gray now, but the grain guy with the bow tie at the wedding and you know, things that I discovered about, you know, you put the bow tie on and you're automatically, people think you're smart. It's, it's not true. It's just the Botox. If you can tie a bow tie it's really not that hard.

Jason: It's just like tying a shoelace, but backwards and in a mirror. It's a so I think, you know, when you find those things to learn how to embrace them and not be embarrassed by them and a lot of times it's just embracing a flaw that you might have. Right? So I think it's important to identify things that make you unique, especially as a creative person. We are, we are looked to for for our uniqueness and really like, you know, embracing those things. So that, that's, that's, and then, you know, as I get older now, I just discovered like, these are things that about me that I'm not gonna change. And just just owning those things.

Scott: Yeah. You know, it's funny regarding the bow tie and branding. There's two people in the photo industry. I mean, of course there's gonna be a ton more who wear bow ties. But when I think of, of notable people that, that I've I'm friends with, I've interacted with that, that, you know, there's a lot of people with bow ties, but there's two that have always stood out. And it could be because both are photo educators as well. But you and Levi sin, right? Two people who, when you hear it, when you think photographer and bow tie, Levi's even gone to the, to the length of incorporating the bow tie into his logo now. So he, he, he embraced it like 100%. It's, it's so anyway, yeah, I mean, the little things really do make an impact. You know, it's

Jason: More than you would expect. And, you know, and I think people recognize you for those things. It's, it's, it's kinda cool when that happens.

Scott: Yeah. so impact messaging, right? So there's, there's something, there's the, the physical part of branding. There's then this sort of audible and, and text, part of branding where you always want to speak a certain way. You always want to talk about yourself, about your clients in a certain way. You want to present yourself a certain way. And these messages that we put out there in the world, whether they're to lead to clients, to just anybody that you're talking to, we add a party, right? You're talking to, you know, you could, you're, if you're a family photographer, everybody is your potential client. Right? So these, these messages you put out there are very important. They need to be clear. They need to stick to our brand. They need to portray us in the way that we want to be portrayed. Do you have any thoughts on maintaining a consistent message? Yeah, actually.

Jason: You know, writing as a photographer, writing was never really, you know, buy my thing. You know, and I did a lot with I heart New York. We would, we would do a lot of blog posts and I go back and look at the grammar on some of those things down and like, my gosh. And I think that would, as far as, you know, other friends of mine that that would hold them back. I do find that millennials do it a little bit easier than the gentle gen X guys do. But I think that's just because they kind of grow up, you know, spending a lot more time, even if it's on texts, it just flows a little bit easier. But when I went to WPPI, you know, I was kind of, I wasn't supposed to be in, in a marketing role.

Jason: And I spent a lot of time kind of finessing the messaging that we would send out for, you know, email blasts and, and blog posts. And I was really fortunate to sit next to Jackie Tobin. I'm the editor of editor in chief of rangefinder. And she used to have to edit a lot of my stuff and, you know, she really helped me, you know finessed those messaging. I would write a column every month for them. And it was really hard. It was 1500 words a month. And you know, she used to be like, you've got to send me more than 1500 words cause I'm going to edit out 800 of them. I'd be like, okay. But in, in that process of a year, two, three, four years down the road I really learned a lot from how to, like, you had to have that voice, but you know, how to, how to, how to be some, a little more succinct with that voice. So it was, it was, it was really interesting, but more often than not, I found that finding that voice really just requires you doing it a lot. And if you're not doing it a lot, you can't find it. And don't be afraid to put something out there that is imperfect.

Scott: Yeah, that's a great advice. Great advice. It's kind of a [inaudible] what you would say as well to basically anything, whether it's, whether it's branding, whether it's learning photography, you know, whether it's creating blog posts, whatever, or even, you know, so five Facebook posts, right. Whatever it is. The only way to get better at it is to keep doing it. Yeah. Right. So that's a message. Right. But yeah, it really is the truth.

Jason: Say the more you get it out there, the more you practice doing it. I used to joke with some friends of mine that I would write, I would write lots of you know my, my, my daughter's about to be a teenager, so I'm warning her a lot about social media and stuff like that. I say that like, you can't ever put something out there that, you know, you don't mean, but I often with my friends, we'll write something and then delete it. And that's also a good practice. So something you really want to say sometimes, but then, you know, but all of that is good practice. So just spending some time doing some writing every day can never hurt you

Scott: Even a yeah. And open up the notes app on your phone and start typing to yourself. Right. whether you shared or not, you know, you gotta make that decision. But yeah, if you should share, right. If there's ever a question, I shouldn't just don't do it. When my father in law likes to say when there's doubt, there's no doubt. So that's good advice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have moved in the past couple of years, right? You stopped making photos for awhile and during your time working at WPPI and then on to other job after that, but you're back to client work again, back to some other projects that we'll talk about a little bit. You'll be able to share that. And you're now 50, correct? 51 on one, yes. And Sunday. And so can you talk about basically starting over rebranding yourself, starting over with what you love back in the beginning of your career and that you did for so many years before your changes, starting over, not only starting over as a photographer shooting again, but in a brand new location. Can we talk about that for a bit?

Jason: Well, first of all I don't recommend my career path for others at this point. Well, I take it back, taking a leap of faith, even at my age, it has been a wonderful thing. Okay. So I left OPPI to go work for another company. And we moved our family out here. It was a leap of faith and it didn't work out. It didn't, it was bad from the very beginning. And you know, I didn't expect that to happen. And you know, it was a, it was, it was not an active, you know, leaving one job to go to another was, it wasn't, it was on paper. It seemed like a great idea. It seemed like a good, a good plan. And from the moment I got there, it was, it was not good. So I made the best of it that, that I could for as long as I could, and then I completely blindsided, found myself out of a job.

Jason: And so it's been a rough couple of years. I'm moving out here, was a great decision. And like I said, we love it here and we, you know as a family, I think, you know, we needed a change. We needed to do something different and seemed, seemed like a good idea. So I, I, you know, I'm you making career changes, you know, where I am. I've never worked for anybody else, so I, you know, I, I've, I've had, you know, when I was younger, maybe in my twenties, I worked for other people either shooting or really I started shooting weddings and I was 17 for a local wedding photographer in New York. And I did it with him for a long time. And then I went to college and then I started shooting on my own and I kind of worked for this guy on the weekends.

Jason: I pursued my commercial career, you know, 15 years down the line. I found myself in a studio in New York city. I did that for a long time, so I never really worked for anybody else. So then going to dev PPI, you know, in my mid forties you know, again, it was a big leap of faith, you know, it was, it was really difficult working in a corporate environment. And then I worked, came out here and it didn't, you know, I thought for a, working for a smaller company was gonna work out as well. That just was other problems. So I found myself at 50, like, Oh, Whoa, okay, what am I, I mean, literally blindsided. I had no, I was going to be out of a job. So you know, I spent a couple months feeling sorry for myself, which I think anybody would do.

Jason: And then I just said, you know, sat down with my wife and I said, what, what, what am I supposed to do now? And you know, I don't have a master's degree in, you know, anything or even a bachelor's degree for that matter. I prefer an associate degree from, from an art school. So I'm completely unqualified outside of this industry. So I'm, I'm, I like to think of myself as a decent photographer. You know, Liz said to me, please please don't go back to shooting weddings again. I don't want to do wedding widow. And I was happy that she said that because I really didn't want to go back to shooting weddings again, but it's not, it's not, not like I, I, I'm not capable arm above that. It's just, it's really hard when you get to my age to, you know, relate to a bride or groom or certainly build a business from off the ground.

Jason: So I didn't want to do that. But what I did is I said, you know, I do need to start shooting again and I do miss shooting. And you know, I, I think I'm a pretty good photographer. I survived many, many years feeding my family that way. So I opened a, a family portrait business and I kind of took the same idea with New York city and just picking iconic New York city iconic st Louis locations and kind of branded them in the backdrop of that. And, you know you know, being a family guy had access to lots of families. So I built a portfolio and built a website and starting that all over again and has been a friend of mine said to me, it's not as hard the second time.

Jason: And I was like, Oh, okay, that is really, I said, well, what do you mean? He's like, well, you did all that other stuff before. You know what to do, you're not starting over again in that sense. You just need to, you know, you're in a different city, so you need to brand all that again. But she's, he's like, you've got, you've got a URL, it's, you know, it's your Jason you're going to use that same URL again. You've got 20 years of backlinks on that thing. And you know, you've got all that good juice on on that and you work your SEO, build your portfolio, do your networking. And he said, you know, you're kind of starting from maybe a two or three years in point. And he was right. He was right in that sense. You know, it was easy for me to kind of jump back into that again, but it was hard, you know, the first five or six families. Justin's, I was like, what's wrong with this camera?

Scott: Yeah, that's pretty funny. I think, I think the fact that you are now in your 50s and the fact that you are a family man was obviously part of the reasons why you did not go back into weddings but also part of the reasons why it's easier for you to get into family portraits now because you know, like you said, you are surrounded by families and to get surrounded by additional families is, is even easier getting surrounded by you know, younger couples that are just about to get engaged and then married is going to be much more difficult. I don't have access to those people. Yeah. So I have to agree with, with what your friend said. I mean, yeah, of course it's not easy, but you definitely probably had, you know, like you said the, the website aspect made things a little bit easier. Your, your just your family life in general makes things easier. I'm sure there's other things that have made it easier, but I'm sure there's still some difficulties. What, what has been hard during this, during this transition? Well, I mean, I mean hard during the transition, besides the camera not doing what you wanted to. Yeah. You're

Jason: Getting the shaking the rust out of my camera. And, you know, people used to ask me a lot WPI, you still shoot. And I would say, you know, every time I pick up a kava recently, it's like I'm the, you know, and forgive me for this analogy, but like I'm the pro ball player who like broke his ankle and then all of a sudden is expected to get up and bat, you know, you know, sort of, you know, 300 again. Right. So and I, and it doesn't, it takes, it takes a while to kind of figure those things out again. So that was a big struggle for me. And I think that it's been, it's been a joy getting back into it again. But I think the thing for me, you know, when you work for, you know, a company and you get that steady paycheck, you kinda settle into, you know, that, you know, a little bit of an ease.

Jason: Like, I'm going to get a paycheck every week. But when you run your own business, it's a hustle every day. So it's, it's a different mindset. It's a different like you know, the way you run your business is different than you're going to a nine to five business with. When you run your own business, you are working all the time, but you need to find how to compartmentalize that business. So like, you know, my wife works full time and you know, the dynamic changes when I'm self employed. So you know, I'm responsible for picking up the kids after school, taking them to practices. Liz concentrates on her full time job, which is, you know, nine to five. I work outside of those lines. So like I take the kids to school, I come back and do some chores, I work on the business a little bit.

Jason: The kids come home from school, I take them to practice, they get them dinner and then I work from eight to 11 right. So the hours are different. Times are different. That then and again, getting back to it's easier the second time. Like I was easily, easily able to go from here to here easily again. I'm now, you know, at night working, you know, doing things. But the advantages, I'm here for my family. It's a blessing. It's awesome. You know, like I'm, you know, I joke that I'm my kids, equipment managers and you know when they can play and I said, you can fire me at any point.

Scott: That's funny. So for anybody listening who's in st Louis or watching and you're in st Louis I feel like we as photographers should do, we can to help other photographers out, right? Yes, there is. There is competition in wherever you go. There's competition, but we're also a community of people who are hopefully all kind people that want everybody to do well and there's more than enough business to go around. That is for sure. Yeah. So what I would like for anybody in st Louis area that is listening or watching and is a, a newborn photographer, a wedding photographer who does those full time and does not do family portraits, refer them to Jason. Jason know he's getting back into it. Right. I'm trying to help you out here, you know, but and I'm also serious, you know, like me as a, as a photographer who doesn't do, I have clients but I'm not a full time photographer.

Scott: Yeah. So, so I'm constantly referring people to other photographers when other I, my schedule can't handle it or when it's, you know, I don't, I don't do new newborn photography. I don't do what a fucker cause I'm constantly referring those to other people. I would hope that other people would pay it forward the same way that I do. So that's my, that's my my plea to the listeners or Watchers. But I also want to hear from you, Jason, what, what, what do you need help with as, so I'm asking this not just because I want to help you, but also because other people in the same situation as you might need help with something they don't realize they need help with. Right?

Jason: Yeah. So you know so yeah, I launched the, the, the family portrait business and thanks for the plug and st Louis Jason St Louis is a great, is a great city and the community here is very strong. There's a st Louis Facebook page and people are willing to help each other out. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's very different than New York city.

Scott: Okay.

Jason: I had my friends in New York, but people do tend to network here a little bit more. They do help each other out. It's it's, it's, it's, it's a different dynamic than New York city was. But it's a, it's a great community here and these guys are doing great job. I belong to the amount the board for the Missouri PPA and you know, plan, helping them plan their events and it's a smaller event, but it's a great group of people who, you know, just looking to keep the community together. They're celebrating their 80 80th year this year, which is unbelievable. So things like that. I, I, you know, have dove in and, and you know if, if, if you're looking to, so here's some advice as an older person you know, looking to get involved in community, you need to seek out the community that's out there and see what you can do.

Jason: Be useful. So a lot of people are like, Oh, I don't need, you know, I just wish somebody would help me and I'm like, you should go help them. Right? Well, how can you be helpful? So that's, those are things that I've looked for. Like, when I moved here to st Louis, I reached out to the Missouri PPA, Hey cow, can I help? You know, what can I do? And, you know, obviously, you know, being in the industry, they were, they were, you know, very receptive. You know, for me to, to work with them, but you know, it, you know, along those lines, you know, like when I found myself without a job here in st Louis trying to figure things out you know, it was, it was difficult thinking like, all right, do I want to look for another job? Do I want to start something over again?

Jason: And that's, and that's you know, what kind of was born out of the other project that I'm working on as well is, you know, at, at, you know, if you're in your late thirties going into your forties and, you know, in hindsight, you know, looking at, you know, what, what your options are, you really need to think about, you know, what your plans are. You know, you're, you're planning for your retirement and, you know, setting money aside, it, it creeps on you pretty quickly. And, you know, my forties went by, it was like, Oh, Whoa, I'm 50 and then, and then starting over, you know, from the ground up you know, without any runway whatsoever was a pretty jarring experience. But I can talk, you know about, you know, what led me to my next project as well.

Scott: Yeah. the Groupp, right. That's what it's called, the Groupp, the Groupp. So before we get into that I I, I have to ask just because it's kind of I mean it's in my head, it's funny that you were such an important role in WPPI for many years and now you're helping out with a PPA chapter. Right. Which is, I know. So I have to ask, I have to ask.

Jason: Yeah, there's a lot, ironically, Doug PPI and, and, and, and PPA have really tried to work hard to have a, have a good relationship. I mean, obviously there is a competition there between the two shows, but you know,

Scott: WPPI doesn't really have any local chapter,

Jason: Right? No, no. And it's been interesting getting to know how those local chapters work. And I think there's a lot of things that, you know, and listen PPA has been around for a long time. A lot of people have not been happy about what, you know, that they haven't really kept up with the times and they're a little old school and, but you know, looking in from the outside of where our industry is at right now and, and how like some of these trade shows and conferences are struggling. You know, is interesting. And I just got back from imaging USA PPA show very strong showing. They've had a lot of ups and downs over the years, but they've stayed the course. So they've said, this is our brand, this is what we do. We're not going to change things a little bit. We're going to shake things up a little bit here and there.

Jason: But the main bylaws, the, the, the, the ways that they keep engaged with their audience is, is really incredible. They're, you know, they're, they're educational programs and you know, all of that stuff. It keeps people coming back every year. It gives them, it gives them a reason to think, to focus on the craftsmen degrees and the certifications and, you know, all of that stuff has, has, you know, super old school stuff, but it keeps them coming back every year. So I was happy to, you know, to work on the chapters a little weird after working with WPI after those years. But you know, for me it was really just being part of the community that, that, that I really cared about. It was really nice that they embraced me and stuff like that.

Scott: So, so when you reached out and you said, you know, you're looking, do you need any help? Can any tech and help you with or whatever, do they say? Do you have any experience working for?

Jason: No, they knew who I was. Cool. And you know, it's funny cause I have given them a, a couple of free passes every year to WPI. All the years I was there and never really thought anything. They would use it in their government giveaways. So, you know, again, there's a, there's a lot of crossover there. And, and you know, it's been really fun working with [inaudible].

Scott: Yeah. Last year I guess technically it was last year, February, February, 2019 I spoke at the 70th anniversary of Connecticut's peop local PPA, their big event. Jennifer Rosenbaum spoke. Unfortunately, I had a miss Hurst, her talk, I got there too late. But but that was, it was fun. It's the second time I've, I've spoken for the Connecticut PPA chapter and but that, there they go all out. You know, it's, it's, it's neat to see for a local chapter to do something. So so big. Like you wouldn't, you wouldn't expect it from local chapter.

Jason: Yeah. And I think that the, the local chapters are struggling right now to try and keep numbers up and keep them going. And I, I, I find the whole chapters, it really interesting. Their biggest complaint that I get from any of the chapters is we don't get enough help from, you know, PPA itself really do operate independently of the organization, but they are supposed to follow certain rules and, and PPA if you're listening out there, that's the thing that I think is the future of their organization. And really if, you know, if you know a guy who could help you build those chapters, it would be me. I think that is I, and, and, and I can kind of get into a why I'm telling you that because I think at my age when you're looking for a new career job some of the things that I read was that you need to carve your own path.

Jason: I'm trying to carve that own path as I'm talking to you, but that's something that I've identified. Like I think those chapters could huge, you know, KPIs to do these road shows every year and most people don't even know about them. At one point they were doing, I think 14 road shows a year. And when I say that to people, they're like, Oh my gosh, really? 14 cities a year they used to do besides Las Vegas. And when I got there, they were doing a six and then they cut it to four and then they cut them entirely. Because they were not making enough money. But the day they quit those roadshows was the day that they started seeing, dropping in of their numbers every single year after that. And it was very hard to make that correlation. And you know, you can't quote me on those things, but like in my opinion, that's, that's the reason why, you know, it became harder for them, but it's that 20, it's that year round engagement that they were getting and those roadshows and they, we used to give them a free pass, the WPPI, so as a pass through to get them to come.

Jason: And every person that I would meet before that would be like, Oh yeah, I got a free pass that one year. And then I've been coming for 10 years. And that's the same thing with the chapters. The chapters, they belong to the chapters. They get involved and they have to go to the Nancy USA show. Right. It's giving, giving a community a reason to be engaged. And I think that, you know, if, if, if, if PPA really wanted to bolster their numbers pumping some life into that would really make a huge difference.

Scott: I agree. I agree. Yeah. You know, we've seen that with other, other organizations that, you know, the local chapters have been striving and then you'd see less from the, you know, the big organization. Yeah. So, yeah. You know, that would be great. And I'm gonna make sure when this episode goes live that PPA sees this. So it's just an opinion.

Jason: Well, you know, an old guy who's worked in the industry for a really long time.

Scott: Yeah. Who might have some experience, a little bit of experience in this, in this John rhe yeah. I and I tell you,

Jason: Since leaving PPI I've missed working in live events and I, you know, again, I've got, I've, I've I've enjoyed shooting and doing those things. I'm going to continue doing that now. And, you know, but in my opinion that it wasn't everything that I wanted to do. Working in this community is, has been, you know, my favorite thing to do. I've enjoyed it and, you know, not working a live events like a PPI has been something that I've missed. And today I laughed. So even when I left you know, even when I was blindsided here in st Louis, I said to myself, that's really what I want to do. And I sat down with my wife, I said, is a time for me to start my own thing. Is it time for me to, you know, launch my own event? And I'd been working through those ideas. Just because, you know, I'm unfortunately not sitting on a pile of cash to just say, Hey, I'm going to build my own event.

Scott: So is this where the Groupp has sort come from? Like,

Jason: So let's talk about that. What is the Groupp? So in my drilling down of, you know, after feeling sorry for myself for a couple of months, I said, you know, let me, let me look around to see if there's, I really enjoy marketing. So you know, is there a marketing job out there for me? Maybe I should try something out outside the industry. And you know, I looked around for some different things and you know, because I'm not super duper qualified, you know, me not finding, and I'm doing all this research, like, you know, I'm literally doing Google search, like how to, what to do when you're 50 years old, starting your career over, like, like really sad, like, you know, things and I'm drilling down, you know what, I read one really good article. It was like, what to do with this age and you know, mine was all the way at the bottom what to do at 50.

Jason: And it said, you know, you're beyond the point of, you know, continuing education, going back and getting your master's or something like that. It's probably not your best bet at this point. But you know, if you have left no choice or you're really close to doing it, you should go back and do that. But you need to work your existing contacts and figure out exactly what you want to do and then just drill down and start doing it. And especially if it became relationships. So you have met lots of people and I'm thinking to myself, Hmm, yeah, I know lots of people in this industry and I've interacted with a lot of people and I'd like to think that people are, are interested and interested in working with me. And this is part of the reason why, you know, like when I saw you, you know, you, you, you, you're doing this podcast and doing it.

Jason: This is why I'm reaching out to you now because I want to have this conversation with you. I'm letting the world know I'm open to opportunities and I'm working on new things. That's part of, you know, my plan here is that, you know, I'm, you know, if you're listening and you have an interesting project, I want to talk to you, right? I have some experience I want to talk to you. But one of the things that I came across was like, all right, well, if I still want to start my own event I need some help. So I found this website where you like, you could book a call with Mark Cuban or you could book a call with a CEO. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, I've always been good at helping other photographers. I wonder, you know, if, if, if I could do something like this.

Jason: So I started drilling down on that. I realized that that there really isn't a market place for photographers to help other photographers. There really isn't a place where you can go. And right now there's somebody sitting at their computer and can't open light room because the library's not working or their Photoshop stop working or something like that. And I'm like, I have a network of people that I would call and say, you know, Hey, I need help. But there's lots of people out there that don't have that network built in who just need help right now. And that's, that's what this idea was kind of born out of. And you know, again, I have worked with, you know, hundreds, maybe thousands of photographers in our industry over the years. So I've built something where can book a call with a photographer or an influencer or you know, a writer and you can, you can schedule that call, you pay for the call, it creates a video conference and called just like the one we're in right now.

Jason: You can even hang on to that and then you can get some education from that person. And you know, being my last name, it's the Groupp with two And I'm looking to launch the official launch will be probably first week of March, somewhere in that, in that time we're going to have around a hundred influencers all on there with, with their offering to help. And then from there, you know, if I build an event out of that, that would be wonderful if it takes off. I love the idea of one on one consultations with somebody very personal. I think that our industry doesn't have a lot of that where you can just get, you know, one on one consultations and, and you know, one of the things that we used to do at on the road shows at WPI would do these portfolio reviews at photo plus. We used to do them as well. I think they're really important things to get and in finding a mentor in your industry or a coach I think is really important. And this is my way of trying to make that happen.

Scott: And it's been great. Yeah. If, if, if this you know, builds up to where it potentially could, you could, you could really have the Groupp for the, you know, 365 days out of the year, you know, there's always somebody available that you can book with. But then you could do the Groupp live where you've got, you know keynotes from the influencers talking to all the attendees. But then also throughout the day, people can book individual one-on-one in person, you know meetings, portfolio reviews,

Jason: More and more experiential more in depth. You know, and I think, you know, this is just another way they're, they're, you know, there are hundreds of places that you can go and get education now and you know, watch on video and between YouTube and creative live and you know, all those other, all those other places that are out there [inaudible] they're, they're wonderful, but sometimes we just need to be able to ask a question about something. And I think that this is a great way and I've gotten it, I've ridiculous response, so well received from the educators in our industry. Everyone has two things. It's a, it's a great idea. And, and you know, it just provides a place where everybody can be, you know, later on if there's a place where, you know, they want to promote a workshop or like you said, some webinars where there's specific education. But I think these conversations are going to be really neat that these people are having. And I'm really excited to see where,

Scott: Yeah, I, so I've got a question about, about the booking process. Is it only going to be book it now for let's say Thursday at 3:00 PM or is it going to be a section where it says these people are available right now? Lawyer, it's like on the fly for certain people at certain times or things like that.

Jason: I ideally would like to have, so a good question. And I, I've kind of thought through that a little bit. I think it's organically going to need to work itself out a little bit, but I ideally would like to have five or six or 10 photographers, especially on the technical side. Who are like available on demand. Like right now their schedule is always open. I could book a call in an hour. Right. I think it depends on the photographer's availabilities. What I'm going to encourage them to do is be available during business hours or like, you know some photographers just in the evenings, you know, so kind of spread it out over a periods of time and then I guess it'll be up to me to market, you know, that the way that goes. But it would be great to have it where like I'm hoping it's literally on demand, like call me.

Scott: That would be cool. That would be cool. You know, I, I I hear Facebook is currently, I'm testing a Facebook page feature where you could send a text message to the page or maybe it's a Facebook group. I can't remember where you can send a text message to the owner of the group or the page or whatever and it goes to their Facebook messenger, but it's a normal phone number that anybody can send a message to and just chat with. And, and you can do the sort of like, you know, I'm available now, I'm offline, that type of thing. So I don't think it's open to everybody yet. I think it's, you know like I saw Jenna Kutcher and I've, you know, Jennica, she's currently, she's currently testing it out in one of her groups. So

Jason: Yeah, I mean those things. And I think part of this idea was born out of that these Facebook groups are wonderful places, but I think that it's time to take some of these conversations a little more, not offline, but like

Scott: Definitely one on one, not, not group to, you know, hundreds of people.

Jason: Oh yeah. I mean people are tired of their it, I don't know what's happening with Facebook, but it's not as much fun as it used to be. Yeah and you know, like I'm, I'm, I'm exploring ideas of going some like old school. Like I think I'm going to put a four of on here, like super old school stuff where I think that, you know, it's time to kind of bring the conversation somewhere else. Cause I know Facebook is so fragmented, it would be great to have one place where these conversations are happening. So like a forum or webinars or something like that where like people can really connect with just that subject and just go there because yeah, I have lots of friends that are just there and I'm like, did you see this post on Facebook? And they're like, I took Facebook. I don't even know.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. It gets too saturated very, very easily. Yeah. So I am right there with you. Yeah, I would love to be able to just remove the Facebook app from my phone if I'd have to do it for work.

Jason: I totally like, and for photographers it's a huge distraction if you're running your business. So yeah, like that, that's kind of goes along with my point. Like if there was a place where you could just go for information, you'd just take a half an hour every day. Instead of going to Facebook, it's I 15 minutes looking at your kids baby pictures and nothing wrong with that. But instead of wasting 15 minutes before you actually get to the meat of what you're trying to do, you just go to the group and you know, you, you check in on, I don't know if you remember like the old school DWF forums and stuff like that. Like, yeah, they were great places for information and you can go there and you can search one place for, you know, a problem that you had. Now if you do that on Facebook, you've got to go to 20 Facebook groups and then search before you got to ask a question. Like that's, that's a timestamp.

Scott: Yeah. Yup. I agree. Okay, so I'm going to put all these places where everybody can find you in the show notes. I want to say thank you, Jason, for joining me today. I'm glad that we were to get you on. And I'm, I'm glad to see that you've, you've got you're, you're, you're doing well in your, in your rebrand and I hope that everybody does help you out as well because, and you know, the same way that you would help somebody else out, that opportunity came up. So I'm paying it forward so you can find the show notes from today's episode, where to find Jason and all the places at 96 and don't forget to subscribe to the show. It's available on Apple podcast, Spotify, Pandora, Google play, and everywhere you listen to podcasts. So thank you again, Jason. And until next time, thanks for having me on. It's good to see your face again. You as well.

clean no 44:01 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 95 – Swipe Up Without 10,000 Instagram Followers Thu, 16 Jan 2020 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 95 If you have less than 10,000 followers on Instagram then you cannot natively do a swipe up inside of an Instagram Story. But there is a workaround that anyone can utilize. In this episode, we will show you exactly how to do it.

Let's get Matt on the show!

@imagely, I want to see @photomatt on episode 100 of the WordPress Photography Podcast.

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What we discuss:

Copy these emojies 👇🖱️


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Welcome to episode 95 this is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and today we're going to continue with a topic on Instagram and I have one goal with this, with this episode of the podcast, and it is to show you that if you are a photographer with under 10,000 followers on Instagram, you can actually do a swipe up feature in your Instagram. Stories you have to do is sort of a a hack a work around in order to make it happen. You can't just do it like somebody who actually has 10,000 followers can do it where it's built in. You have to do a workaround, so I'm going to show you using Facebook's creator studio. If you are not using creator studio, I recommend it especially to upload your Instagram stories. Anything you make on your computer that you want to upload to your Instagram, you can actually post to your feed and to your IgE TV, which you're going to need as well by connecting your creator studio on Facebook to your Instagram account.

Now all this does. If you go to and create a studio being one word in that URL, then you can then connect your Instagram account. You connect your Instagram account and your Facebook page and you then have access to edit, modify, and also post to your Instagram feed, your Instagram stories and your Instagram IgE TV. So what you would do once you're all set up with that is you make sure you're in the Instagram tab. Go to create post, choose I G T V Instagram TV, and you're going to go ahead and you're going to create a new post to your Instagram accounts. And yes, as you probably just thought, if you're watching this episode, then you probably just saw that you can actually connect multiple pages and multiple interim accounts to the creator studio. So that is really nice. Then you will go ahead and you will upload the file.

You can import it from your Facebook page if you have stories that you've created on your Facebook page and you want to utilize or you can actually upload a file. So I create all my stories inside of final cut pro. And so I do it just upload that file that I created there. You can also upload a custom image if you want, and of course has to be a vertical image, but you can upload a custom image. You then are going to create your title. So this is my amazing title. That is the title. I'm going to use the sample title. And then I have these emojis that I use that, that I include. I have them in a app or note and I just copy and I paste them here. And you can see that there's two, if you're again watching this episode, I have a down arrow and a mouse click.

There is no touch. I'm like tap phone emoji. I wish there was, but I can't find one that really works well. So basically I am saying, you know, you can tap to look down and then the description, here's where the fun hack comes into play in the description of IgE TV. You can put a URL and that URL is clickable on the phone, right? Whereas if you were using an Instagram post, normal in your feed and you put a URL, it's just text, they don't make it tappable clickable on the phone, which means that if you're sharing a blog post and you want to say go to this blog post and you type it in, you have to say or visit my LinkedIn bio and click the link in the bio. And that's annoying. So the workaround is saying, okay, here's the link to the blog post, right?

You put in your URL to the blog post and then you put description. This is my amazing description. And you put that in for the IGT V episode, the, the T V IGT V episode you're making, and then you hit publish or you can actually schedule it. You can schedule your IgE TV and also your feed all in creative studio. It's really nice to do on the desktop. Now, I mean, I use buffer as you saw in the last episode. I, you actually use buffer for our us to say two episodes ago. I use buffer to schedule my Instagram posts, but for stories and ID TV, I do it all in creator studio because it's just so much easier whenever I have one that I've created on the computer, not on my phone. Right? I mean, okay, so you post, you publish that, right?

You have it all done. Next thing to do is actually go and create an Instagram story. So we're going to go ahead and create a story. I'm going to say this is my story and say swipe up. Now of course you can, you can add in. You can add in stickers. So I'm going to add a swipe up sticker and obviously the color isn't great, so I'm going to change the color. There we go. This is my story. Swipe up. And now what you're gonna do is there's a link icon. You're going to click that link icon and choose the IgE TV video that you just created and you're going to hit done. And now what's going to happen is that in your, in your story, there's going to be for people watching, there's going to be that swipe up feature. And when they swipe up, it's actually going to take them to the story, so when they swipe up, they're going to see this.

They're going to see the YouTube TV episode that you created. You can see the title, we'll have the emoji, which is more visible, and when they go to click it, it's going to bring down the description with that link and then they can click the link and they can get to the page you want them to get to. It's okay. Is that simple, but it's still a hack that you have to do. Unfortunately, if you don't have the right amount of, of a of subscribers, if you don't have 10,000 which is not your fault, I mean it, it, it, it happens and not everybody has a goal of getting to 10,000 followers. Not everybody needs to gets a 10,000 followers for their photography business. If you're not there, you have a way to do a swipe up with a little bit of extra work rather than swiping up and going right to the URL that you're saying they're swiping up and they're going to an IgE TV, which then will then send them to the link you want them to go to.

So there you go. That is a episode 95 I can't believe we're in episode 95. I hope that you're enjoying this sort of a multi-part series on Instagram. What would be really cool is I've had, if I can get to episode 99 all on Instagram, that is my goal and that way episode 100 will be something super special. I don't know what it would be yet, but I'm still working on it. I'm, if you think that'd be cool to have Matt Mullenweg come on the WordPress photography podcast. Matt Mullenweg is the original creator of WordPress. Please just ping us on Twitter, on Instagram, wherever it is, Facebook ping us and just say, I want you to get Matt on episode 100. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. Check out the show notes on 95 see you in the next episode.

clean no 7:54 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 94 – Focus on Local with Christine Tremoulet Thu, 02 Jan 2020 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 94
Christine Tremoulet

Christine Tremoulet is a brand photographer for speakers & coaches and also a coach for photographers. She launched her photo business in 2007 but she named WordPress in 2003. Yes, she named gave WordPress the name we’ve come to know today. Christine came from a digital strategy background in the photo industry. She believes in the power of supporting local to grow your business. She is the founder of InstaLocal (TM), the InstaLocal Prompt Planner, and Photographer's Inner Circle. She also has a new podcast coming out soon called Reframe Success.

Joke of the day:

Why was the photo arrested? Because it was framed.

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What we discuss:

  • Her new podcast, Reframe Success
  • Should destination photographers consider local marketing to wherever their home base is? Or specifically to destinations, they prefer their client's weddings at?
  • Do you really need 10k Instagram followers to be successful?
  • What is InstaLocal and how did it come about?
  • How posting content also on Instagram transforms into networking a local business
  • Who should you surround yourself with on Instagram?
  • Any strategies to find those people?

Where to find Christine:

Referenced Links:


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Scott: Why was the photo arrested? Because it was framed. Welcome to episode 94. My name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and I'm joined by my guest, Christine Tremoulet. Hey Christine, welcome back to the show. It's good to be back on the show. Yeah, you were a guest number two back, I guess three years ago, four years ago. I don't even know how long it's been, but so, you know, obviously we've talked a lot since then, but you know, our guests haven't seen your face or her from you or our listeners rather in since episode two. So or a little less, there's less there. You know,

Christine: We did another episode in the middle for the WordPress anniversary.

Scott: Did we? Oh, okay. I'll have to look up which episode that was. I don't remember. Yeah. You know what? And I think, I think we did that to tell a little bit of the backstory about WordPress. So, so with that for those who don't know, Christine actually did name WordPress in 2003. She knows Matt Mullenweg and helped him come up with a name. And for those who don't know, Matt was the original developer of WordPress and now obviously there's thousands and thousands of people who develop WordPress, but thousands. So Christine is a brand photographer for speakers and coaches and also a coach for photographers. She launched her photo business in 2007 and also named WordPress in 2003. She came from a digital strategy background in the photo industry. She believes in the power of supporting local to grow your business and she is now the founder of Insta local and the insula goal prompt planner and the photographers inner circle. She has also has a new podcast coming out soon. Now by the time that this episode airs, the podcast will probably be out already called reframe success. So first, welcome to the show Christine. And too, I'm going to ask you what's going on with you, but really I want to know more about reframe success

Christine: That, I mean actually what you summed up is what's going on with me. I've been traveling a lot recently with my photography work. I have clients all over. Which is a little ironic because I believe in the power of local. So I do have local clients, but I have traveled recently pretty extensively with one client in particular for most of it, including going to France and Southern France. Everybody always thinks I met Paris. I actually, we went to nice and cons and a day trip to Monaco, et cetera. And then I also went out to Palm for her to photograph a conference that she put on. So that's been really fun. I've spent a lot of time traveling recently and reframe success. I learned a lesson several years ago from a friend of mine when I was talking about my vision for success, which for me at the time included, you know, hitting higher in the six figures and so forth, growing my business more.

Christine: And she apologized to me. She told me, she's like, that's not so, like, that's not my vision of success. She's like, I don't, I don't want that at all. This is what I want my photography business to look like. She was soldiering some teaching at the time and she wanted to be able to just work certain times of the year and essentially she wanted her photography business to just be a part time addition. She wanted the summers off so she could be with her kids who are still young at the time. And it made me realize that what success looks like for you and what success looks like for me, what success looks like for the next person. It's completely different for every single one of us. So it's so important to talk about, you know, what does success look like because I don't, I don't feel that she was, she's not unsuccessful in her business. She's exactly successful. She's ending her goals, just her goals aren't mine. And and then also to discuss like what are the things that we do to make us successful? How do we get to achieving our own success in our photography business?

Scott: Great. That sounds like a great, a great podcast.

Christine: A lot of business tips, a lot of life life, life tips. I I used to say, I, I feel like in a way I'm a business life coach, but I am not a life coach in any way. I don't sit and help people have better lives, but I want them to have a better business life so that they make more money.

Scott: Yeah. I, I'm, I can't wait till that launches because you know, I have my, my vision for success. And it's probably far different than so many others. Which, you know, like you said, everybody has their own vision of it and so I'll be interested to hear what others think and how they got there and maybe I'll be able to take some of those strategies and use it.

Christine: And you, I even want to talk about like what are the struggles that we hit along the way because it's not always easy. And a lot of times we talk about the easy part, but we don't talk about the hard part. So yeah. I can't wait to have you on as a guest. Thanks. Thanks. I look forward to it. We're going to talk about vision of success.

Scott: Yeah. So, so in that, in that little intro about the podcast, you mentioned how you've been traveling a lot, but your, your, your big, your big focus is teaching about local connections. So can you talk about how photography destination photographers, whether weddings or personal brand photographers or whatever they are that do travel a lot why should they consider local marketing and should it be where they are or should it be where their preferred clients are?

Christine: Yes, and that was actually a yes to the like, yes, it should be where they are, am or their preferred clients are. But for the majority of photographers, even if we have a destination type of business, we,

Christine: Our bread and butter is still normally where we are located. When I was photographing weddings full time several years ago, I, I did a lot of destination weddings. I probably did one a month, sometimes two a month. Okay. Maybe not that many. I do know that there was one year where I had eight destination weddings. Several of those people found me though, because I'm based in Houston. So they were researching, like flying a photographer in and where for their destination, where was it less expensive to fly a photographer in from? And Houston's a great hub city for that. So people actually found me for destination work because of where I was based. Another point is to get into talking about like talking about yourself becomes a little bit easier for one of the topics you talk about is where you live. That is a character in your story. So even if I work with you, I still care about where you live. Even if you're coming to me in Houston, I want to know something about you. And so having that network helps and most destination photographers that you talked to, this goes back to like the honest truth be like destination work is amazing and glamorous and glorious and everybody thinks it's so incredible and it is, it's also really tiring

Christine: And very exhausting. And I found for me that like, and I love to travel. I mean I just spent eight weeks gone from no nine for gone, but aye. Aye. There hits a point where you don't want to travel much more than that unless you are specifically living a nomadic lifestyle, which I do know people that have done that. But those are, I mean, that's, that's not the norm for most people's lives. Right? It looks cool. We all want to do it, but that's not the norm. So you really do have a home base no matter what. And talking about it is beneficial now. But would you want to market in your area or the area you're trying to go to? Depends on if you've picked just one area that you want to go to. And in, in reality, yes, Instagram is going to be super helpful for that, but your blog will be as well because Google's going to index your blog.

Scott: Right? Right. So speaking of Instagram I think there's a, a common misconception about the power of followers. So I have, I think like somewhere around somewhere around 2000 followers, Instagram, something like that, maybe three, something like that. I dunno. And it's been effective in some ways. In some ways it hasn't. I'm sure I'm not being as strategic as I can be for my photography business. And so I'm wondering if the misconception is real or fake myth or true that you need 10,000 followers or more to really see some success on Instagram.

Christine: I believe that that is one of the biggest myths hurting our industry. I've known people personally had one-on-one in face conversations with them. You know, the behind the scenes things that they're never going to post on social media, knowing people that have 40, 50, 60,000 followers that don't have full calendars. So like it, they've got tons of followers, but those followers are global. This is actually part of how the whole insole local thing all came together. I realized their followers are everywhere around the world and they're following them and they're loving what they're putting out, but they're not necessarily coming to where they're at and booking them or flying them to them and booking them. They're just admiring their work. Right? And that's awesome. But that's that strategy that we talk about. I really, I don't care how many followers you can have. I care how many are converting.

Scott: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how do you get those people who are, are lurking and liking all your stuff to actually book you for something or buy from you from something, something you're selling?

Christine: Right. And I mean, if your goal is to, I'm talking averages here. Somebody always pops up and says, I run a studio and we have a hundred clients a day. And I'm like, cool. You're not the average photographer, professional photographer. So we're talk, we're talking to the majority here. I realize there are outliers. This isn't, may not apply to you outliers. I understand. Let me just, I love, I just like, I always feel like I need a disclaimer. This might not be you, but for the rest of us, if you're a portrait photographer, what do you want? 150 clients a year? You know, maybe. I mean, I know that there are some people that do multiple sessions a day, et cetera. Most of us don't. So maybe you want a hundred clients a year. Do you need 10,000 followers to get to a hundred clients? No. You need a hundred people following you that are

Scott: Interesting. Heck, if you're, if you're a brand photographer, you potentially need five followers and five calls.

Christine: I mean, that's actually my, my personal goal. You know, I have two, I have three clients that I would call, like my super clients that I photograph them multiple times a year. I've already got things booked in the next year where I'm going to be at events that they're speaking at. I'm photographing and speaking. I do their brain sessions so that they have collateral for their websites. But aside from that, I only maybe want 10 other followers and I mean 10 other clients. And some of those clients just come from association. They see the photos that they like and they say, Hey, who took 'em? And then I've, I, that's how I ended up going to France was that, so now again, so let's say you want a hundred clients a year or 25 clients here, your wedding photographer. So that's really 50 clients, but 25 weddings to get to 50.

Christine: Do you need maybe 500 people to see you? You don't need 10,000, it's just so often that number is tossed around and I get it. You get the cool swipe up feature and Insta stories, but the game of using Instagram also completely changes when you tip that number, like how Instagram shows your post to people, how you so, so many people just, they, we tossed that number around as if like, it's this mythical number. My business will suddenly be busy once I get there. And then we spend a lot of time without a strategy to get people to see our work.

Scott: Two two things. One to, to address that swipe up thing that you mentioned. For those of you who know when you hit 10,000 followers, you can create a story and have it swipe out and then go to the link. There is a hack workaround for it, which I'll briefly touch on. You can create a regular story and a I G TV video and, and in there you can put a link and then from your story you could actually make a swipe up to your IgE store. A, I G TV and then somebody can click from there. So it's kind of, and you can use emojis to like point to the link and stuff like that. You have to be willing to record video though. Yes, yes, yes. You definitely. Or I mean you can, you could, if you want to take the time, you can make your own video without you on. Yeah. So there's things you could do. Obviously it's much easier if you just have a, you know, a swipe up, but, but you know, this is work. The other thing is you mentioned a little, just a little bit about how it's that that's how interlocal came to be. Could you talk a little bit about what instill Loco is?

Christine: Oh, for many years, and this is actually, we've talked about this on previous podcasts episodes for many years. People ask me, how did I get some fully booked my first year in business? And I've always credited my blog. I've always said, you know, it was because of having a blog and that people found my work that way, et cetera. And I kept having this conversation about the 10,000 followers thing. Like, do we really need that? And how I believe that that's a huge myth. Yeah. And as I started looking back, I realize now back then, Twitter was not the cesspool of craziness that Twitter is now Twitter back then. I feel it was much more like the power of Instagram today where you could post things and you could talk to local people and you can make local connections. And I realized it wasn't just my blog, it was my activity in this social space where I was networking with other people.

Christine: I was connecting with them, I was talking to them pretty regularly. I was celebrating them, I was posting about them, not me on Twitter. And I've always told people, you know, go do blog posts about local businesses, talk up things that are local. But it just sort of all coalesced together earlier this year where I was like, wait, that's the entire strategy. Like go to Instagram, connect with local businesses, talk about local people share that you're doing things in your market. Share things that your ideal client might be interested in? Mmm, I always talk about my neighborhood. My neighborhood is amazing. I love my neighborhood. I live in the Heights in Houston, so I might go shop at 19th street, which is as my neighborhood's over a hundred years old. So 19th street would have been like the main street years ago. And so that's where all the shopping stores are.

Christine: You know, all the stores, there's several restaurants there. So I might, yeah, I might do, it's the story features every Sunday of local businesses. But what happens when you talk about somebody that's a local business, they see it and they get really excited and they share it because they love that somebody is talking about them. We're photographers, we have the skills, we can go take good photos and we can share about them and we can connect with these people and up our network of people talking about us all through Instagram and still use your blog because that's what Google indexes like any long posts that you create on Instagram, you can turn into a blog post. Yes. That that was going to be my next thing. So we all know that social media is a risky source of, of, of content, of, of, of making it your single source of content, right?

Christine: Because you know, you're, you're at the mercy of Facebook, of Instagram, of Twitter, of LinkedIn and Pinterest. You're at the mercy of them. You post it. They may not own the copyright of the text or the images that you post, but they own that content. It's theirs so they can pull it when they want. And not only that, but we've seen in the photography industry, we've seen reports of people's accounts being pulled, not just the post, the entire account gone. People with hundreds of thousands of followers gone like that. So it is good to rely on your own website as the single source of content, but also to share those in, in not just Instagram, all the places that your clients are at. Repurposing your content back and forth. Best thing ever. Get off the content treadmill and just right at once. And then we use it a lot of times. I always like to think sometimes I'm feeling more inspired on Instagram. I may have just read something.

Christine: It goes back to that question. You know, people are, sometimes they're intimidated about blogging, so I might feel more comfortable writing that whole caption out for Instagram. But you copy it, paste it back on your website, make it a micro. I mean, we've sorta, we've gotten so into how do I get the perfect SEO for my website? But things like microblogging don't seem to be as prevalent as they were, I dunno, seven or eight years ago. Okay. And I mean to do a microblog, let's say you do want to use your Instagram as your microblog, you can create a detailed blog post on your website that is good for SEO, that's educational for your clients and things like that. And then take, make little bullet points of, of takeaways from it. And then there's your microblog for Instagram. Right, right. And that microblog could be in the form of stories. It could be in the form of, of your feed IgE TV, whatever it is. Do you think IgE TV is going to last? I think it will. I think it will. But here's the, so let's say we had this great, amazing blog posts. It's got all the SEO in the world and it's, you know, 2000 words long and everything else. Can't you stick a blog post or two in between those that are just, here's one photo and a little description to say, yup. I mean, so like that's, I think we get, we start to make that every, every blog post has to be this great cornerstone content. They, they don't, you can slide these in between.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. Without a doubt. And I mean, heck, you could, you could actually post if you, I mean, you could cross post and say, you know, this, this is the blurb. And this is the photo. And you could also view this photo on Instagram if you'd like, you know, and send people back to Instagram to like it there. You can even embed the image from Instagram if you want. Or you could do, here's the photo. And then on Instagram, here's the behind the scenes from the photo and that's on Instagram, right? There's so many things you can,

Christine: There's so many things you could do to like cross populate this content.

Scott: Yeah. I would like to point out that as a anybody who's got a brand that they, so somebody like you or I who also teaches photography, right? We're photographers, but we also have our own brands. And from the education space, we should be doing more and more of what Gary Vaynerchuk does. But on a smaller scale scale, because we don't have billions of dollars.

Christine: I didn't want somebody following me around every day filming me. Okay. Some days I do want to yell at the camera. Yeah.

Scott: Yeah. So, so what I'm referring to is, is coming up with a piece of content and then you've got a little audio piece that you're throwing onto a mini podcast. You've got a piece that you're doing on video and putting it on Instagram. Another piece, it's a little bit longer that you're putting on YouTube or LinkedIn or and then you're making a, like a tall graphic for Pinterest. All related to that one piece of content. Photographers can do this and brands can do this.

Christine: Say photographers can absolutely do this. And they're not that like really important point. They're not, yeah. Mmm. It's almost like we slide into this hole of thinking, well, I'm just a photographer. Yes. But you're an expert at being photographed and for most of the world, being photographed is the most intimidating thing ever. Yeah. So you have so many tips that people want to know. They want to know that you're the expert and

Christine: It's not as easy as just saying, I'm the expert at photography in my market. They need proof. And also everybody else can just walk in and say that they're an expert. So what are your next Bert app? Why, why you, which actually brings me to another really good Instagram point for a lot of us because we're photographers and we have a lot of photographer friends. Those are a lot of the people that we follow on Instagram and a lot of the posts that we comment on are our friend photographer post, right? Those friends are probably not booking you and every action that you take on Instagram is telling the algorithm something. So if you're constantly, if all you follow is 2000 other photographers and you just talked to other photographers about other photography things and and the only people commenting on your stuff is other photographers. You are limiting who in your local market is seeing your work.

Scott: And so really you should be surrounding yourself with the people that you want to book you not, not with your friends and your family. Have two Instagram accounts. Yeah, your personal account. And this is the one where you

Christine: Follow all your friends and you do all the things and then have an account that is specific to your market who are businesses and potential customers that you follow. You meet, you connect with, you comment on their posts and your following account may not be as high, but it's also not artificially inflated by all the photographers that are following you.

Scott: Yeah. You know, it's funny. I, I've always been in the mindset, I still am that it, I fought and partially because I run the, the Imagely Instagram account and I run the other stuff and I've got like five or six Instagram accounts I'm running all at all given time that I don't want a separate one for myself because I already have too many that I have to deal with. Right. so I'm always been, I've always been the mindset like, one's good, but I get the benefit of having the, the other one you actually are

Christine: Doing it just not in the way that you expect. Because I bet that like you can sit and go through the Imagely account and get a lot of inspiration. Is this everybody that's every race pushback is, well, I use Instagram for inspiration and I'm like,

Scott: Cool.

Christine: Have an inspiration. You know, having an account where you go to operation, maybe you're not even that active on it, it's just so that you can easily get to the feed. And then have your your business account.

Scott: Yes, yes. On your market and your ideal client. Yup. Yeah. So my own, my own, my Scott Wyden Instagram account is only for my photography business. I have, I use the feed for for clients and then I use the inter IgE stories and I GTB and Instagram stories for my education side of the business. So I separate the two host personal things on my Instagram account all the time. Or not saying don't post personal things I do all the time,

Christine: But I do it thinking that my future client wants to know about me personally.

Scott: Yeah.

Christine: Oh yeah. All mixed together.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. The way I do that is it's like photos of my daughter for example, and then I tie that into family photos. Right, right. So, yeah. Okay. So we now know who we want to surround ourselves with on on Instagram. My last question to you are, are there any strategies that you have? And I asked the same question to a Devin Robinson two, two episodes ago. What's this is episode 92 any strategies to find those people.

Christine: Okay. So my favorite strategy is actually not to find those people, but to be found by those people

Christine: Using you properly using hashtags and using local hashtags. A lot of times I will do a Instagram account audits with people and we'll sit down, we'll look at their account and every post that they use has hashtag weddings, which I haven't looked recently. I, I'm off the top of my head. We're going to say that that hashtag has been used like a hundred, 300 million times. Like it's so used that if that's the only hashtag you're putting on your posts, it's going to get lost in a sea of posts in seven seconds. Like it's, no one is ever going to see your posts using that hashtag. So if you sit down and you look at what are other local businesses using, what are some, so you know,

Speaker 3: [Inaudible]

Christine: What are some hashtags that people are using in Houston that tie into what I do? And then using them using hashtags with a lower use count. So there's a hope that somebody will ever see your posts because they're not going to see it. If that hashtag is used a million times, you're probably not ever going to be seen. But if I use hashtag support local Houston,

Speaker 3: Yeah,

Christine: It's going to be seen. Yeah. Instagram is also not dumb. I mean like they are constantly building it. It's constantly growing. It's getting smarter by the day. That's a little terrifying. They're all going to take over some day smarter by the day. So if you use hashtags on your photo that have nothing to do with your photo, your caption, they're not going to reward you for that behavior. So don't be like, Oh, this is a popular hashtag. I'm just gonna stick it on my post andS and see what pops. Now, if I use support local Houston and I'm talking about a local business, Instagram knows what those words mean and that it will reflect probably what I'm posting about

Scott: For the record. What a hashtag weddings has just shy of 20 million posts.

Christine: Okay, well that's a little bit better than I thought it was. Cause I was thinking it was 200 million, 20 million still. That's a lot of posts. Like people are constantly using it. You're not gonna be found. And again that goes into that global versus local. You want to use a mix of those hashtags. Sure. You want to use some things that everybody uses it. People might be searching on [inaudible] but you also want to use things that people right in your market might be searching for.

Scott: Yeah. so do you, how do you, when you look for hashtags, are you literally just browsing Instagram or do you have a tool that you recommend that you use for it? I know we've talked about one that I use but I'm curious what, what you recommend for hashtag research?

Christine: I, I always just start out with browsing Instagram because the nice thing about it is Instagram will say, Oh, you're interested in this hashtag. Here's, here's my suggestions and I want to know what Instagram suggestions are. Until you told me that there was a tool for it, I didn't realize, well, I know that, you know, some of the schedulers will make suggestions of what you should use. I feel like sometimes the schedulers make suggestions again of those big global hashtags. They don't realize that you're trying to focus locally. Because at the core of it, that's it. Like so many things out there teach us to use Instagram as if we were commodities and global influencers. Like, I'm not trying, I'm not commodity you, I, I can't be folded up and put into a box and shipped to seven different places at one time. I'm not a commodity. So our strategy for using Instagram is, has to be really different. And so when I looked at a lot of the schedulers and the hashtags that they were suggesting, I was like, well, those are great, but they're global. These functions are built for people that are really dealing with commodities, not a service like us. So, but I do want to hear about the one that you use because I know you've said that you've used it with greater like with good results. Yes.

Scott: Yeah. So what I use the smart hash, I talked about this in a wood Devin as well in episode 92. And I actually if you go to episode 90 twos show notes, you'll see a link to a video that I did on smart national as well. But long story short, it does have a few things with hashtags, hashtag research or show you what has been working for other people and you can dig, dig in and it uses a to heat map app. So red is like super hot. It's on fire. Use that gray w as a feed from, from, you know, to reft. Yellow to gray. Gray is like, it's doing nothing for anybody. So you can browse a specific hashtags, you can dig into related hashtags to a hashtag. Doesn't give you stats on those hashtags, but it does just tell you how a good is doing. And then you could also go and create your own hashtag sets and split test hashtags to see what works best for you and with a, with a heat map. So you could do a lot more than that, but

Christine: We need to remind people, because I feel like I always have to say, silver number, you didn't hashtag sets awesome, awesome. Use hashtag sets, but notice it's sets. It's not one set, like, right. Don't copy and paste the exact same hashtags on every single post that you're using because Instagram's like, thanks cyborg. I'm not, I don't care. You know, it starts to, it will impact your, you're being seen don't cop. I mean, yes, you can use these sets and sometimes I shuffle things around or I pull a few out and put a few in and change things up. But don't use the exact same 27 hashtags on every single post that you make verbatim.

Scott: Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah. you wanna you want to definitely change it up. And that's one of the things that, that that smart hash does is you literally, you hit split tests and every time you do it, it's going to use a different group for you. And like I can tell right now, like my new job, I have a New Jersey family hashtag set, which I'm looking at right now. And one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 of them are doing stuff for me engagement wise, whereas the rest that I have in here, which is probably a good 60 or so hashtags in this set are doing nothing, which means right now I should remove all those and stop focusing on it. Right? And they're not doing anything for me. One of them is doing a lot, like one is red.

Scott: And then the next one is ours and the, the rest of the ones that are doing stuff are all yellow. But again, I have some of the yellow ones. I would keep them, Oh yeah, I'm click, I'm keeping all the yellow ones. I would remove all the gray, all the gray ones. And then of course, if you add new hashtags to that set, those are going to be gray until you start using it. So don't just remove a gray one unless you know for sure you've used it. But I have like, I have a New Jersey family set, I have a New Jersey cake smash set, which is actually is even doing better than the family one. And then I have a personal brand photography one, which is on fire. Like there's a lot of good ones there. And then I have a general photography one which I'm doing because a, it's me as a, my own personal brand trying to get sponsors. So I, I use other brand hashtags to get noticed. So anyway, that's, that's my, that's, that's sort of my strategy is using that tool to find good hashtags to use,

Christine: Which Instagram gives us a gift of the ability to put 30 hashtags on a post. Don't use just three, like use 20 or 30, use them. And you might use a hashtag that maybe it's only used 5,000 times, but you don't know. Maybe it's a hashtag for a venue and your next client is looking for stuff on that venue. And that's how they find you. You know, and I just, I, people can easily get really mired in what we're talking about right now. This like do you know, split testing and you know, getting all the data and everything. If that freaks you out, just start simple, just start using some hashtags, you know, worry about that. Like that's your face too, that's, that's later. Just get using hashtags, get in front of your local market and stop panicking that you have to get to 10,000 followers that that's, you know, this magic crescendo.

Christine: I know people with 4,000 followers that have waiting list of clients and people with, you know, like I said, 50,000 followers that aren't even fully booked. Yeah. Yeah. So the last question I have for you is if you can explain what the local prompt planner is. So what I did, so I have, I have a course on the full, like creating your Instagram strategy, like making a 18 minute a day strategy. But for some people they're like, Hey, I'm just barely in Instagram and I never know what to post. So I've created a, it's a, it's 365 prompts to help you come up with what you want to write is not fill in the blank. Like there's not, you know, here's this exact thing that you're going to post and it's a formula but much more, here's a topic, go write on it. I don't know about you, but sometimes I just get stuck.

Christine: I open, I hold the magic box in my hand of my phone and I wonder what on earth am I going to say today? Because all I've been doing today is, you know, sitting in my pajamas and editing. Okay. Not my pajamas, but I do warehouse pants a lot when I'm at home. So you know, I haven't, I haven't left my house and all day and I've just been editing all day and what am I going to say on Instagram that's exciting for people that's going to make somebody want to connect with me. Oh, here's a, here's something I can use. Here's something. If I sit down, if I do, if I preschedule using planner or plainly or later, or I just blanked on the buffer. Thank you. I was like, they started to say Buzzfeed and I'm like, that's not right, but it starts with a B, whatever you use.

Christine: If when you, if you feel stuck, like what am I going to talk about in this post science scheduling, they are prompts to help jog you to get you going. And initially the the first edition is a list that people can go in and edit. They can write their stuff. You know, maybe you work with an assistant virtual assistant or you have somebody on, you know, that does work for you, that does your scheduling for you. So you could write out what they should post and then they can schedule for you. We're also adding a calendar version, so it actually looks like a calendar on January 7th, I should post X. Nice.

Scott: That sounds amazing. So I'm going to link to both install local and the prompt planner and of course the photographer's inner circle. All in the show notes. So I want to thank you, Christine, for joining me today. I'm glad I did confirm it was episode 60. So you're on episode two and 60, which I will also link to in the show notes so everybody can go back and listen to those. Yeah, episode 60 was a 10th anniversary celebration where you and I hopped on and just celebrated WordPress being around for, for 15 years. 15 years. Yeah. 15 years. So tell the listeners w even though I will link to in the show notes anyway, tell the listeners the absolute best place to find more about you.

Christine: Well, I'm glad you're linking to it because the best place to find me is at Christine tremolo a that com. And I know it's not easy to spell.

Scott: I share that. I share that with my last name, so no worries.

Christine: It's not easy to sell. I understand. I should, I should probably, I keep saying I'm going to register like a shorter URL for using on shows, but you know, and the, so local information...

Scott: Nice. so you can find the show notes and where to find Christine at 94 don't forget to subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, Google play, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you again, Christine for joining and we'll see you in the next episode. Thank you for having me.

clean no 41:20 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 93 – Time-Saving Strategic Instagram Tools Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:00:32 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 93 In today's episode, we dive a little deeper into what was discussed in Episode 92. We look at three tools that are designed to help save you time and to be strategic on Instagram.

After listening or watching this episode, if you have recommendations you would like to share, please comment. We look forward to seeing what works for you.

Joke of the day:

What happened to the fastest camera in the world? It burst into flames.

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Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

What happened to the fastest camera in the world? It burst into flames. Hi, this is Scott Wyden Kivowitz. Thank you for tuning in to episode 93 of the WordPress photography podcast. Today we're going to talk about time-saving strategies using Instagram tools. Now if you listened to episode 92 with Devin Robinson, then you heard some really cool strategies as what you could do on Instagram to grow your business locally. Well using into the, and you heard some pretty pretty juicy details some really good strategies shared by Devin. Sophie did not tune into that episode. Be sure to listen to that episode 92, but today we're going to dive a little bit deeper and talk about some Thai time-saving strategic Instagram tools. And the first one I want to share is buffer. Buffer is and there are multiple plans. I am actually grandfathered in to their first plan that they ever had.

So I am not technically using their buffer for our business plan. I am on a plan that no longer exists and it's actually much less expensive than buffer for business now is. But even so if you have a profitable photography business and you need to do social media, need to find ways to save time on social media. Buffer for business is still a worthwhile service to, to pay for, to save time on social media. Basically the way buffer works, and I've talked about buffer numerous times previously on the show, but today I'm going to dive in deeper. Basically you have all of your social accounts, but we're going to be focusing on Instagram here and in there you can have a queue where you set the schedule. I have to go to settings and posting schedule. You can see that on the Imagely Instagram account we have it posting every day at 5:26 PM.

You could add multiple times a day. You can have posts as much as you want. You can quickly add times in bulk. You can change your time zone when you want to go out, things like that. So you had this queue of content that you want to share. You can view it in a list view, you can view it in a calendar view and and so on. Depending on the plan you're on the buffer, there's also a visualization tool where you can drag and drop it as it would look on your Instagram profile. And then it'll go into that order as well. And so basically you had this queue where you just click on what you want to add, you drag your image there, you type in your location and add to the queue, and then it'll automatically schedule it to go out at the next time that it's set.

So if you look at the screen right now, if you're listening, then obviously you can't look, but on the screen it says the next available time is 5:26 PM. And that's actually today the day I'm recording this. But then you can also hover over that time and switch it to a custom time. If you want to actually switch it to a specific day, a specific time, you could do that as well. You can also hit share. Now move it to the top. If it's at the bottom, move it up, move it down, edit it, delete it. You can drag and drop it where you want it and things like that. Really nice can even shuffle it. If you want to just randomize the order, you can do that as well. The way that this works is by default. It uses a reminder approach, meaning you install the buffer app on your phone, turn on push notifications and you will actually get a notification saying, Hey, this is ready to go out.

Just hit paste when you're on Instagram and it'll automatically do that and so on. But you can verify your Facebook and Instagram because they're really one in the same. You can verify those inside of buffer and and verify it through the app and it will actually automatically publish the photo for you or video for you at that given time without the need to send to her a reminder with a colon reminder. Now, if even if you have that setup, if you upload an image that is not the right proportions for Instagram, it will force a reminder because I need to crop it in the Instagram app. But that's, you know, few and far between depending on what you're trying to do and what images you share. So that's the buffer. The cool part is you can add multiple Instagram accounts. You could add multiple Facebook pages, Facebook groups, Twitter, LinkedIn, Pinterest, and so on.

There's a lot you could add and you can publish to all of them at once. You just select what you want, where do you want to go? And you can have a different queue for each thing. So if you look at the posting schedule for images, Instagram versus my own personal one, you'll notice that my own personal one is 8:00 PM that's because my own personal photography Instagram account gets more traffic on the weekends at 8:00 PM and more traffic during the week on Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 11:00 AM. So I have it set for different times, different days. It don't. And I, OMA, I'm always testing now. There's [inaudible]. There's also some analytics in here. It's not necessary to have the analytics in buffer because you can also get that right from Instagram itself. If you have a business account on Instagram, which you should if you have your business, so there's that.

You could also rebuffer if you want to add something that you previously had, you can rebuffer as well. Now that's buffer. Now the cool part is if you have buffer, if you're using buffer and you have it all set up, you can then check out a plugin called WP to buffer pro. Now there are two versions of this WP to buffer, which is completely free in the WordPress directory and then WP to buffer pro. I recommend for the price it's only a hundred dollars a year or $200 once to buy WP to buffer pro because unlocks so much more of what you could do and I'm going to just walk through real quick how this works. Basically when you set it up, you authenticate your website to your WordPress website with buffer and then it's going to show you all of your social accounts that you have available and it's going to give you the option of what you want to happen by default on publish.

If you update a post, if you want it to repost every so often and what bulk publishing is, I'll get to what all that is in a minute, but the first thing is setting up on publish. What do you want it to do? You will actually say that on publish. I wanted to go to here. I want to publish and say share the title of the blog post, an excerpt of the blog post and then a URL. Now the URL wallet, it's great, you know for Twitter and Facebook and LinkedIn and Pinterest and all that stuff. It's not very useful for Instagram, so I'll get to what I do differently in Instagram, but before I get to that I just want to tell you and show you what what I have been doing now. This is my own personal site. I've got a lot of exclusions because I don't want certain categories to be published.

And so that, that's, that's what I got going on here. I mean I've got it posting immediately to, to basically everywhere that's using the default and you could override default per social channel as you'll see in a little bit. And then I have it excluding a couple a couple of categories and then I have a, what's going on next? Next is number two is adding to the start of the queue of my buffer queue. So on publish it's going to publish immediately and then it's going to do another social post that's a little different and it's going to add to the top of the queue. And then it's also going to add another one, the third one at the bottom of the queue and it's again a different post. And then 15 days, 23 hours and 59 minutes just to divvy it up, it's going to add another one to my queue.

And then 30 days, 23 hours and 59 minutes is going to add another one to five posts by default with images and links and text, all different texts. By the way, all going out to social media. Now I have that for Twitter is actually overriding my default. So if you're watching this episode then you can see that you had the option to override the default when you enable an account and then Facebook page is just doing the default. So the page itself is posting and no overrides. Linkedin is posting with an override LinkedIn page. My photography business page is posting no variety. Okay. Now take a look at what I did on Instagram. Instagram gives it because you cannot link to th w cause you cannot actually link to like click on a link. Let's say in a description of a, of an image.

What I have is I have title the URL with a emoji pointing finger to my own profile. I mentioned myself at Scott Wyden and then it says, and click the link in bio so somebody can read the text, see the link, or they can go to my profile and click the link in the bio. And then right below that is an excerpt and that is publishing with the featured image of the post and that's it. Now what's really nice about the way that WPT buffer pro works is if you have a featured image, you don't want the featured image to go, you can actually set it up so that there's another image that's used specifically for Instagram through WP to buffer. And I'll show you that in a little bit, but that is how that works. And again, you can have that go out at anytime.

You can post it numerous times. It's all up to you. Now before we move on, I just want to show you a couple of things. One is the update option. You can also do social media post when you update your blog posts. I don't recommend doing that because unless you have a strategy or a specific reason to do it, I don't recommend it. Then there's also repost, which is fantastic because there is no limit to how many times you should be promoting your content. So what I have it set to do is it's actually set to repost my blog content in specific categories and it's doing that I think it's every 30 days or every 20 days. A new blog post gets re added to the buffer queue automatically and it's not published immediately. It's added to the end of the buffer queue.

And again, with images, with whatever text you want to say, you basically set up a template and it reuses it. Then there's something called bulk publish. This is where if you want to dig into your blog post archives, you can do that with a book published feature, which will allow you to fine tune based on categories or tags and then hit both publish and it will re edit to the end of the queue, the start of the queue whenever you want. And it'll do it for all of your social channels that you set up in the settings, so that's really nice as well. You can also do this for pages and if you have other custom post types, you can do that for those as well. If you have WP of buffer pro, it'll work on custom post types and give you the advanced Instagram options and things like that.

But otherwise you can do it with the free plugin on posts and pages. You can't do as many conditionals as you can in the free version like you can in the paid version. Okay, so that's important to know. Now when you're actually on a blog post, this is a brand new blog post you're seeing right now. If you were to scroll down and go down to the on the right side sidebar sidebar there, see, it'll say WP to buffer pro featured and additional images. There's four grids. The first image only replaces the featured image in a status where the status option is, is, is not set to use open graph settings. Okay. So that means like Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, places that give you the open graph option. You can replace the featured image that's being used on social media in through Doug Peter buffer pro. Using that first grid of the image grid that they give you.

Additional images only work where the status option is set to use featured image, not linked to a post meaning if that's for Instagram. So if you want Instagram to have three images right then or one image, then you use the second, third and fourth box that's available for images. It's as easy as that. So you just go in and you, you click on that and open to the media library and you choose the image you want being shared on Instagram. And again, you could do it three times, three times. Okay. The additional images only work where status option is set to use featured image, not linked to post. This is important. Okay. That is Instagram. You can do three images if you want to. That is no problem. In fact, if you have four images, if you have the main image plus three additionals, it will actually do that as well.

So that is, that is really nice that it gives you the ability to do that. I also want to show you that in the main content area, if you scroll all the way down, you'll notice I've got a bunch of things. So don't mind if you're watching. Don't mind the other plugin. But basically you'll see there's a some metadata for w w P buffer pro, including a log. And in there you can say, do not post a buffer. So if there's a blog post that you just do not want to be shared on buffer or on social media, you can choose, do not post it to buffer or you can say use the plugin settings. So that's the default settings that you already pre-configured or you can post to buffer using manual settings. Now this is useful for Christmas campaigns or any special thing where the social media posts are very limited.

They're not intended to use your default. This is where you can go in and manually adjust everything. Okay. So if you want something to go to Instagram's X amount of times you know, because on a special that you're having mini-sessions something like that, then maybe you want to override the default settings that you've pre-configured. So that is really, really, really useful. So so far we've discussed buffer as a software as a service and then WP to buffer pro which is a WordPress plugin that you can literally pay for once and use it forever. The next thing I want to talk about is smart hash. Smart hash is a app that I highly support and I will actually link to a video review. I did have it in the show notes so check that out if you want to see my review, my personal review on this.

But long story short, smart hash gives you the ability to research hashtags to see what will work well for you, what is going to work well in your local area, in your market, things like that. This is the smart hash app. Now it's a web based app but there is an iOS app as well. I think the Android version uses the web, so it's hard like a container, but the iOS app is what you see here. And there used to be a lifetime plan. I think that they got rid of the lifetime plan and now it's a monthly or annual plan, but it uses something called heat maps. So you could see red is really hot and as I scroll down it gets cooler and cooler. A white means that there's nothing good about it. But let's say style me pretty is something I want to explore.

I can hit more on that and see related hashtags to style me pretty good. All of these are all related to style me pretty wedding photography, right? So here click on more. We can dig into what's relevant, what is hot, what is really hot on the, on the heat map for wedding photography, right? And then you can click on these and copy them and you can add them to your hashtag set is I can click on individual hashtags and copy those selected hashtags or I can do what's called a split test copy and it's going to copy randomly a bunch of hashtags. So if I was to go ahead and I, I have buffer here and let's say I start a new post and I hit split test copy and I go here, you're going to see that it starts with Monro and J and M with MI Familia.

Right, and if I was to hit it, split test copy one more time and I was to erase that and override it. You can see the hashtags are now different so it's actually split testing. Every time I go to use hashtags it's going to try new ones. It's always going to include ones that are hot and then it will include a bunch that are not doing so well which will over time let's you, it helps you analyze and see what's working for you specifically and what is not to get you engagement. You can of course hit copy all, but I don't recommend doing that because you want to only do 30 at most at any given time. And if you listen to episode 91 of the podcasts you heard Devin, I believe you said 25 is the most he ever does. Okay, so you can do this.

It can, if you're a pay plan, you can do multiple multiple profiles. If I hit upgrade, you'll see that I've already upgraded. But there are some, you get multiple hash sets and Instagram accounts, full access to the Instagram insights and you can even engage and search for hashtag. So to give you an idea, besides the search feature, which you've already seen, and by the way, there's a daily top 100 as well, which is really nice. But you can also schedule if you want, you can schedule your Instagram photos and visualize it right inside of smart hash. The only downside is it uses the notification approach. It's not automated. You have to actually be notified with a push notification to then post it. Then there are insights where you can actually dig into your Instagram profile and see what days are working, what hours are working.

So when should you post your follower growth what locations are popular. All of these different things you can dig into a lot of that. And last but not least is the comments. So right from smart hash wire in it, you could reply to comments so, and if you're done you can just Mark it as done. So the smart hash is really nice too as a time-saver tool because you don't have to go back and forth between things. If you want to, you could schedule all from there. Of course there's always room for improvement and the developer is always improving to that is really nice to see. So there you have it. Episode 93 time-saving strategic Instagram tools, buffer, WPT, buffer pro and smart hash. Those are mine. Those are what I use to work on through an Instagram. Of course, I go into Instagram itself and I spend time and not terrible amount of time because I do schedule my posts. So most of the time I'm there. It's engagement rather than actually posting. But I'm curious, what tools do you use for Instagram, your Instagram strategy too, for posting, for scheduling, for content creation, for research, for hashtags, things like that. What do you use? So go to the show notes, 93 go down to the comments and let me know, share what you use for Instagram. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. And we'll see you in the next episode.

clean no 19:51 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 92 – Making it happen on Instagram with Devin Robinson Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 92

Devin Robinson has grown his business, Anchor&Veil, into a high-end destination wedding business where he travels all over the world photographing weddings. He has been in ten different countries and over twenty states.

His business now includes five other photographers and two cinematographers. So far this year Devin got over 400 Inquiries, has generated 110 wedding leads from Instagram alone and already reached $450,000 in revenue.

Devon also runs the Anchored Business Podcast and YouTube channel and has one of the largest wedding photography courses in the world in the Wedding Photography Masterclass.

Joke of the day:

What kind of photos does a turtle take? Shellfies.

Tweet This

What we discuss:

  • Lead generation on Instagram
  • Client conversion on Instagram
  • Profile strategies
  • Story strategies
  • Hashtag strategies
  • Link in bio solution

Where to find Devon:

Referenced Links:


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Scott: What kind of photos does a turtle take? Selfies. Nice. Alright, cool. Cool. Cool. All right, I'll take it. Alright. Welcome to episode 92 my name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and I'm joined by my guest, Devin Robinson. Welcome, Devin. I'm glad to connect with you.

Devin: Hey man, I'm excited to be here. Also, really quickly, my two year old son loves turtles, like obsessed with turtles, so I will definitely tell him that joke. When I pulled out a camera, I'm going to say, Hey, let's take a, let's take a shellfy.

Scott: You're fine. That's the litmus test to a good corny joke is if you all can laugh at it. Right? That's for sure. Yeah, I definitely let me know what happens in the middle. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, so quick intro about Devin. Devin, a rod Robinson has grown his business anchor and veil into a high end destination wedding business where he travels all over the world photographing weddings. Right? So he has been in 10 different countries and over 20 States, but who's counting? Yeah. Wow. Sometimes it's nice. My dad, his, yeah. Yeah, I count. I have a whole map. That's cool. Fun. It's fun. It's fun. So, so Devon's business now includes five other photographers and two cinematographers. I think that's amazing. So far this year, Devin has got over 400 inquiries, has generated 110 wedding leads from Instagram alone and has reached 450,000 in revenue. And one of the reasons why I sort of emphasize on Instagram is because Instagram is today's topic. So Devin also runs the anchored business podcast and YouTube channel. As you, as you know, as if you're listening to the podcast. I am also pretty big on YouTube. I focus a lot on YouTube content. So it's nice to S to also chat with additional YouTube content creators.

Devin: Yeah, I'm not, I'm not a, I'm probably not the best content creator on YouTube, but I do what I can. Not all that level. Not quite to your level yet.

Scott: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if I have a level, but I'm also doing what I can. So you know, it is what it is. Yeah. Well it's fun. It's fun to create content, these people through it. So that's, that's all that matters. So Devin has one of the largest wedding photography courses in the world and it's called the wedding photography masterclass. And there's a Facebook group which will be linked in the show notes, which we'll talk about later. Hey cam, that's my favorite part. Devin, what is going on in your world? What's new?

Devin: Hey okay. So a lot of things are, I guess, new. And I guess if we're, we kind of put a timetable on new in the past. I don't know. So I guess new in my, so I started recently, I guess in the past since last November. So I guess in a year I started the kind of associate program where they're not referenced as associates to my clients. They're kind of our family. But I started that and there's a lot of growing pains I had to do with that. But now it's kind of becoming a well oiled machine. It's still a lot of growing pains. And then when it comes to new, new I

Devin: In April, so I guess it's, I mean it's six, I guess we fostered an eight year old and then in June we got a one and two year old as well. And so life got real crazy for us. And so things have been kind of crazy. And then at the same time just kind of trying to grow a brand that kind of helps a lot of people. Man. That's like my biggest, that's my heart. And I know a lot of people say it. You know, but like I tried to give so much to where people go, wow, this guy is actually legit, just trying to help people. And that's, that's my, that's my heart man. And so I love being able to give as much as I can. Like you said, there's something about my course, but like I don't even have it available for purchase right now because I just want to give, give, give. And so like that's just, that's, that's kinda where I am right now.

Scott: Yeah, no, I, I totally feel that, you know, like I've got, I've got courses and I don't promote them that much and I'm constantly constantly pushing out free content, whether it's blog posts, podcast episodes, YouTube videos, and to me that's what it's all about. And if I make some extra income from people who care enough to buy, then great. If not I'm happy to just teach. So. Yeah, man and I love stuff. I love that about you as well. So. Cool. So today we're going to be talking about Instagram now before we start recording, I mentioned to you that I'm really excited about this topic because I feel like a lot of people have Instagram strategies including myself, have we, you know, everybody's got their strategy whether it's working or not, and some people just don't want to share their strategies. Yeah. And so today you're going to be sharing some, some things and I'm really excited to learn from you about what's working for you on Instagram because you are generating leads and clients through it, which is very difficult.

Devin: Yeah. But actually, which is the most important part because like a lot of people would teach so many things that are like how to get followers, how to do all that stuff. But if I'm not generating revenue, then what does it matter? Like this isn't a popularity contest. Right. I know you've probably heard this said plenty of times, but like I try my heart is to be as practical and making it happen, but like profitability over popularity, like I don't give a rip about like who follows me if they ain't paying me, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So like I do, I do hope like there, there are photographers that follow me for inspiration and that hopefully follow me for education. But like when it comes to like wedding clients, I want to engage in follow in order to build and generate revenue because ultimately my bills gotta get paid and likes don't pay him.

Scott: So one thing you just mentioned, cause I run into the same situation as you as a photographer who, who has clients but also

Devin: Teaches photographers. First things first, and this was not a question I had planned, but I'm going to ask this. Perfect. Do you separate your Instagram accounts between client content and photographer content? And if not, how do you separate it on the one channel? On the one profile? Yeah. Great. Great, great question. So I don't, I don't use Instagram as much of a, I use it more of a vehicle rather than a destination for, for wedding wedding photographers. Like I want to push them where I can give them the most about amount of value, which comes from back and forth interaction. And so that's not necessarily on Instagram because it's fairly one-sided now. They can ask questions, they can do all that stuff, but I can really dive into them on something like my Facebook group. And so that's where I want to push them.

Devin: And so there'll be a lot of photographers that follow me for inspiration for things like that. But I always try to push them back to my Facebook group because I think that's where a lot more authentic relationships can be made with educational clients because I can really are educational like photographers or that type of brand because then I can really dive in, hone in on them, ask in a group context a lot of things. And so then it becomes relational and it becomes communal. And so that community atmosphere or that community feeling is what really builds and yields trust, which then ultimately if you're trying to sell builds trust, which then leads to ah, two revenue and leads to buyers because people don't like be, they got to like trust and know you. And I think that can happen on Instagram, but I think that community is really fostered within something like a Facebook group.

Devin: But then when it comes to my clients as far as wedding photography, clients like brides and things like that, aye. Aye. Aye. Here's the thing, man. And I say this all the time, nobody cares, right? And nobody cares about what you post. Like nobody cares about the pretty picture. The only people in this world, they care about. The pretty pictures that I post are me and my mom. My wife didn't even here. Look, listen, it's the weirdest thing. It's like, this is the strangest thing. My mom has somebody else's wedding photo as the background of her iPhone and I'm like, mom, that's not even me like that. Like, why do you have that photo? It's Jesus. I love this picture baby. And I'm like, well, and so like I'll show, I'll show an amazing picture in like France or whatever to my wife. And she's like, Oh, that's cool.

Devin: You know? And I'm like, Hey, what's the reason? This is cool, this is awesome. It's so like, I don't even like it as much as I do. And so in the same way, like the people that follow us don't follow us like specifically or strictly for our work. They follow us for the way that we make them feel. Right? Maya Angelo has an amazing quote and it says, people will forget what you say. People will forget what you do, but they'll never forget how you make them feel. And I think Instagram is an amazing Avenue to be able to to be able to bring that together and to make people feel something. And so people will follow you, not for, not, not specifically for your work, but for how your work and for how you make them feel then. So then I translate that into the DMS and things like that. So I am heavily sliding into the DMS of people and heavily doing a lot of those things to be able to generate those emotional contact points, which we can talk about in a little bit. But that's how I separate them. To answer your initial question.

Scott: So how much time are you spending on Instagram? Because, cause I, you know, like there's, you've got, you've got a an engaged Facebook group, you've got other, you know, you got emails going on, you've got Instagram, there's so many different places, but how much time specifically will you, are you at your age? Are you opening Screentime I'm exactly, that's exactly right. So you know, like you're going to like lie about it. I'm going to tell you exactly, you know, like I probably spend maybe 30 minutes at most every I, I'd have to open screen time too, but at most, maybe 30 minutes a day I've never spent more than 30 minutes on Instagram even, you know, in DMS and comments and stuff like that.

Devin: Okay. So now I'm really curious for you to open your Screentime because I think it adds up over time. Like I think it adds up more than you think. And so anybody listening, I would suggest you open up your screen time and then go over to, you could go over to like [inaudible] last week or whatever, but then click on day and it'll give you your in it. If you click on Instagram or you can just click on Instagram specifically and it will give you your day average. And so my daily average on Instagram, and so I'll be honest with this, straight up is an hour and three minutes daily. Wow. Now I do. I do bet you that a lot of people listening spinned around that anyways, they, and they don't make the money that I make on it. So we'll talk about that. But Scott, what do you got? Three minutes. 90 minute. Okay. Okay. Hold on. You had like today or yesterday, what do you have for like last week? So if you go to last week and then you go, then you click on Instagram from last week.

Scott: Let's see, let's do, let's do the week and then Instagram. Okay. So seven minutes is a, is, is the daily average for less credible.

Devin: That's incredible. Okay. So now I have a fairly my, now I would venture to say that the average person, I would say the average person spends a lot more than seven minutes on Instagram probably. And so I'm impressed by you for only spending seven minutes. [inaudible]

Scott: Okay. Now I will try to restrain myself.

Devin: Now I will say that like my average a while ago when I was really heavily establishing this foundation was probably around an hour and a half to two hours a day on Instagram. But like I would spin that anyways a lot of times because it was me and my wife, like we didn't have kids yet and so I wasn't super distracted. I was able to do doing this. Now some people would have kids, but I do also think that there's times where you could do this, like, like for me, like, Oh, I'll do this when I'm going to the bathroom or when I'm like, just wake it up or something like that. Or like there's so many opportunities for me to do this in my strategy when I talk about it a little bit. So a lot of times I will mindlessly like photos or I'm, but I'm always intentionally engaging.

Devin: I'm never just scrolling. And so I do this a one, one big thing I say is I say you have to streamline authentic engagement. And so people were going to go, well, what the heck do you mean by streamlining authentic engagement? Does that make it not authentic? And so what I'd do is I go to, I use keyboard shortcuts. So if you have an iPhone, I can tell you how to do this. If you don't, I have no idea how to tell you how to do this. So, but you would go to settings, general keyboard, text replacement. And so I have all types of things like whenever somebody gets engaged, I will go in and I will write this every single time I will go in and I will say I'll type in the words dream wedding and then, and then I'll press space in this whole paragraph populates that says, Oh my gosh, so excited.

Devin: Swooning over that ring. Let me, let me actually tell you exactly what it says. I don't, I don't, and that's very smart. It's kind of like a Gmails, a canned replies feature. Exactly. You're basically creating for, for engaging in just on Instagram. It's very smart strategy. Yeah. Just exactly. And so what I'm, but I don't have to type it out every single time. Yeah. Which saves me so much time. It saves me another hour on Instagram because like I'll tell you one thing that's been really cool. I've done this so much that on a Saturday or Sunday right around now in this season, every time I open Instagram on a Saturday or Sunday, the very first photo that pops up is an engaged couple that literally just got proposed to because Instagram, because I've engaged so much with it, Instagram goes, okay, this is the content you want to see.

Devin: We're going to keep pushing it to you. And I'm like, thanks algorithm. So many people don't. Many people like complain about the algorithm who literally is bringing me clients because I've engaged so much on a specific type of post, people getting engaged. I've typed in that keyboard shortcut, which is authentic. It's not like red snap like you know, like it's not one of those and it's high value. So what I say is it says us so excited. Swimming over that rain. Congrats. Enjoy planning or dream wedding. If you ever have any questions or need anything, don't hesitate to let us know. We are so excited for you with a bunch of emojis. Heart, iHeart eyes, ring fires, works, champagne, confetti, confetti, heart eyes, you know like it has those emojis in it. Yeah, but it seems super authentic and they always go, Oh my gosh, thank you so much.

Devin: And then what I'll do right here, Scott. So I go straight from here. I literally go straight into the DMS and then I T I S I send one another one that is 100% value. I go, Hey, I just wanted to send them more personal. Congrats here you go. Here it is a guide. And so for some of your listeners out there, you could create a sample timeline, you can create an engagement session guide on what to like, what to wear during an engagement session, right. I live those things you could create. And then I say, here you can have this. This is a gift from me just to say congrats. And then I say this, I say, full disclosure, if you get this guide, it will sign you up for, you'll get one email over the one email per week over the next two to three months and it's going to have like tips for helping you to plan your dream wedding from the photographic standpoint.

Devin: It's going to have getting ready tips, family photo tips, engagement session tips, engagement session, what's where, all types of tips. And then I say, you can unsubscribe at any time. You don't have to hire me. But I know a lot of people find a lot of value in this and I hope you can as well. And so then they're like, Oh my gosh, that's amazing. And they all sign up for it. And then what happens over the next two to three months? I'm building trust with them. I'm building grand awareness with them and I'm building this this, this feeling of reciprocity with them. And so then what they want to do immediately is they're not going to, nobody else has done this. No other photographer has done this. So I'm going to be the roots out. I'm going to be the one that they go, Oh my gosh, like why wouldn't I hire them?

Devin: I've seen a bunch of their work already. I don't know. I like their work and they've given me so much value already. And so that's been really huge for me. And then I have so many other keyboard shortcuts. Like I'll tell you another story, Scott. When I I went saw this bride and you know, like she, she didn't really follow me. And we could talk about how to get the clients and how to find brides because I follow probably about 6,000 of my ideal clients and I'll tell you exactly how I do that. Just a second. But like I, this girl didn't even follow me or anything like that, but I saw, so I live near Charleston, South Carolina, which is an amazing location. I loved Charleston. Oh, so gorgeous in, and they have this one venue that I love and I'd never shot at before.

Devin: It's right on King street, like the main street. It's called the William Aiken house. And I went into the location, sir. Oh, no, no. I followed this girl and she was just like, just got married or just got our venue. So excited to get married here. I typed in my keyboard shortcut for venues that was like, love that venue. Your wedding is going to be an absolute dream. You're going to be the most gorgeous bride. And like now the town now, the countdown route, now the countdown begins and things start to get really start to get really excited. That night I posted that the girl followed me, sent me an inquiry, met with her the next day, booked her all because of me commenting on her photo and stuff like that. And so like being able to go out and also, here's the thing, here's another thing Scott.

Devin: People are like, who do, I'm a guy and that's just kind of creepy. I'm a guy too. Okay? Like I'm a guy and I've been doing this and it generates leads and has generated revenue and people feel valued. They don't feel creeped out by it because we live in such a narcissistic culture that like when people post on Instagram, they post in order to get affirmation. Like there's studies that are shown that when somebody gets affirmation on their, their photos, dopamine flies to their brain. So like this reward circuitry place associated with this feeling of, of joy and reward every time somebody gets likes on their photos, that's automatically associated to my brand. And so now I'm building that and building that and building that. So then, you know, they say it takes somebody an average of seven times to remember your brand. But if I'm constantly over and over and over affirming them and every time they see a anchor in Vail, like their photo, a shot of dopamine goes through their brain. Now I'm not trying to like take advantage or leveraging, but social media is doing that anyways. I'm just using that for my brand now. And so like I'm, I'm, I'm creating this, this positive reinforcement and, and association with my brand that ultimately leads to bookings.

Scott: You know, I love the fact that not only did you get back in this net particular story, not only did you get that client, but you got to photograph the wedding at a venue that you were dying a photograph. At. So I just, I just Googled the picture of the, of the building the property. Oh, it does look amazing. So yeah, it's pretty cool. And one of my

Devin: Photos from it is like chandelier is everywhere from that was so like it was a really nice wedding that I got because I

Scott: Commented on a photo. Nice. Yeah, that's great. So, so how do you find your ideal clients? Is it just searching for specific hashtags, a searching for specific locations? We're, is it like following what other places are following, which is I know a common thing as well.

Devin: Good question. So so Scott, quick question, do you know the maximum amount of people that you can follow on Instagram?

Scott: I know it's somewhere up in the thousands, but I'm not sure what the total number is.

Devin: Cool. So 7,500 people, so 7,500 people is the maximum it will allow you to. And I, if you look at my Instagram right now, let me see how many people I follow cause I'm not quite sure. I think I follow 7,494 people, 95. And so because like what I do is I will actually go and things like, so hashtags not so much. I will actually go to location services because I know where my target audience goes. So my target audience goes to bank of America stadium to watch the Panthers play my target IOT and goes to inc and Ivy, which is a bar uptown Charlotte. Because my target audience is 26 to 35 professionals that are that like to go out, enjoy time with their friends, things like that and are most likely paying for the wedding. Most like 80% of my clients are all like doctors, lawyers, dentists, things like that because that's where I go and I understand where those people go and hang out and do things socially.

Devin: They don't go to, like if I lived in green Greensboro where, where I went to college, they don't go to like Greene street club, which is like a, like a, okay. So like they don't go there. They go to nicer, higher end bars, enjoy times with their friends. And so I'll actually go to those locations. So I'll go to the search bar type in that and I'll go to that location and I'll look at all, I mean like the thing about Instagram is it allows you to be extremely picky with who you want to follow. I will follow my exact tar. I know exactly what they look like. I know what they were, know what they were kind of purses they carry. I know all of those things. And so I can take a look at some somebody's sister [inaudible] and know that that's my target audience and we would all be lying if we say we couldn't do that either. Like I think most people know

Scott: Who they want to photograph. Yeah. You want, if you want to start doing a an hour a day on Instagram, that's like the best way that you can spend an entire week of doing an hour a day is, is, is to do the research to find your, your ideal clients. You know, the way that I do it is, or one of the ways that I do it I should say, is I actually start looking at my clients cause I follow all my clients on Instagram and then see who they're following and see who has a family, see who, who who's posting photos of their, of their newborns and stuff like that. And, and I will start following them. And that way I can track who's, who's ready for a family session and who's ready for whose, whose child is turning one and ready for a kicks mess session and so on. So

Devin: Yeah, and you can, and you can easily like slide into those DMS and go, Oh my gosh, I saw that if you want to, but you can be like, I just saw, you know, like now I don't think this is kind of creepy. I don't know. You could, I don't know, but you should be like, I'm like, Oh, what a cute baby. I have all my website, like five ways to sleep train or something like that at sleep train and newborn or things like that. Which people can find a lot of value in and ultimately that's what we want to give them is a ton of value. And so yeah, that's what I do. And like exactly that. I will actually, so a lot of people will go, okay, well how do you find people, like if they're private, you know, like private accounts.

Devin: And so what I'll do is, you know, like some of those, some of those people that come up in my location services, they're either in a photo with their boyfriend and I'm like definitely them. Or they're in a photo with like five of their other friends and I know what. And so I will go in and I'll look at their tags and I'll follow all five of their other friends. And then people say, well, do you follow them if they're private accounts? And my answer is 100% yes. Because now that's even better because if they're not private accounts and then my follow gets lost in their likes, you know, as they scroll through. But if they're a private account, they have to go through, they have to go to my Instagram page. They have to approve me and then, and so then they're more likely to follow me back and remember me rather than somebody who wasn't approved account,

Scott: That's for sure. And if they see that you're following their friends, that even increases the chances that they will follow you back. Cause then they're going to say, Oh, well I'm, I'm dating somebody. What if, what if I get engaged? Now I should, I should know this person, you know? And if they follow me

Devin: Back already, then there's social proof, you know, like there's social proof that I am a trustable account.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. So how about how on average, how many leads do you get on Instagram each month? Like who all partners?

Devin: Gosh, good question, man. You know, I love ballparks, but I also all about real numbers, real numbers. So let me just, let me pull it up right now and tell you, that's a great question. Okay. So in the last, let's see, lead sources leads by month. Instagram, so in, okay. Ooh, yeah, this is really interesting. Okay. So 104 teen total so far. And it's November. I got, let's see, January is a big month. I got 23, February 14, March 15, April, that one's a little bit lower. Six leads may seven and then so 11. So I guess I would average, Oh, and then October 12 and then these next couple months are already like spiking up. And so I would say like I average at least 10

Scott: Around us. What I was thinking per month. Yeah. Nice. That's, that's, that's pretty good for just Instagram, which is, I have to say Instagram, while it's the most photo centric potential social media network for potential leads, it's, it's the hardest. Yeah, it is the hardest. And so that's, that's good. 10 10 on average is pretty impressive.

Devin: I'll get a lead from Instagram.

Scott: And, and, and so you're, you're using the strategy of sending them to your, to your wedding guides and, and stuff like that. So while you're in your analytics about on average, how many of those leads do you get to convert to, to clients?

Devin: No, 26%. So one out of every four turned into clients, which is great. And we're also in a higher end, like my associates start at 35, which means nobody books 35, they all book between like the average for my associates are around 4,800, 5,000 and the average for me as a little bit over 7,000, so we're still on the higher end. So if I were a little bit lower than we would convert at a much higher rate, but we're still a little bit too expensive for a lot of people.

Scott: Nice. Yeah. And you know, that's obviously going to you know, the potential people who are obviously not your clients will obviously know, hire you. So, you know, that's exactly right, which is perfectly fine. You don't want, you don't want the people who, who to, to not necessarily waste your time, but you know, you want to be able to focus on the people who are more likely to hire you anyway.

Devin: 100%. And I'm also sorry. And I also like don't want to just, just because I have an associate does that mean that I want to give them every bride? Like I want them to be happy with the clients that they get as well. Not just give them those people just so I can make more money.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and there's people that, that as an, I don't have any associate photographers in my photography business, but you know, there's from, from the outside in, there's probably clients that you get that you won't connect as well with that one of your associate photographers might connect better. Yeah, for sure. So you're gonna wanna pass along and vice versa depending on each person. So, so profiles, right. This is a, this is a topic where I feel like there's so many directions you can go. I wonder if you have a strategy for color scheme for your profile or texts on photos or never texts on photos or a specific posting schedule that you go by. Do you have a strategy for basically how your profile functions?

Devin: Man, I am. I am so glad you asked me this question. I really am. I love this because what I think is the way that I do Instagram makes this completely irrelevant, like just so irrelevant. It's not even funny man. Like I hear so many times people are like, Oh, you know, like posting of yourself so people can get to know you and things like that. And I'm like, that's awesome. And then they'll say, Oh, post a pretty profile so your scheme looks great. And I'm like, that's awesome. The only one scheme that I've ever stayed with is like, I have one row of black and whites. The other two are colors and like that's it. Let me tell you, I have posted. Okay, you ready? I posted four days ago and then before that I, this is this is November 12th. I hope it's okay that I say the date.

Devin: Yup. I posted four days ago, which was November 8th last time I posted before that, October 21st last time I posted before that October 15th last time, October 5th I may be maybe post once a week or once every two weeks. And so like this strategy and then like, but the crazy thing is all of my posts still get extremely high engagement except the last one because I used a copyright song and so Instagram didn't allow it to go fart. Yeah, but the posts that that engagement is going to be because you're engaging, excited, anything. Oh my gosh, exactly. Like that's the thing. It makes, it makes the algorithm or it makes how much you post. Completely irrelevant. I post once a week maybe and I still get super high engagement and I still get an inquiry every three days because it doesn't matter. Like, like I said, people don't come to my feed because of my work.

Devin: They come because how I make them feel and if I can make, what I do is I go to them to make them feel a certain way. I don't need them to come to me, I'll just go to them. And that worked a significantly better than me trying to worry too much about my, my Instagram profile and it leading, yielding nothing rather than I go to them and doing and do the work. And that's just most important I think. And are you doing any stories at all? Yeah, I will occasionally do stories. I do think stories. I think stories are far more actually engagement on stories as going down right now just because Instagram in general, but like, because Instagram and, or because Facebook and so I think though, but, but, but if you, if you were to take a poll and you were to ask who immediately when they opened their Instagram, it goes to the story first or it goes to this feet first.

Devin: And I would say 80% right now, let's say it goes to the stories first. And so stories are important. I have not put as much as I used to just because like my strategy is elsewhere. But what I do is I go to stories and I will immediately go and engage on their stories. They people post stories because the same reason why they post photos is they want to be engaged with in some way, shape or form. They want, they want some sort of affirmation for what they just like I saw a study and it was like I'll skip some of the stats, but it was like at least 7%, right? So I know that sounds low, but it was like 16% will post like seven to eight or we'll take seven to 10 selfies before they post the one that they like.

Devin: But then it was like 7% of women well we'll take 11 to 15 selfies before they find the one that they want to post. And so like seven to 8% is plenty of women in the world. It'd be my client. And so like I'm going to go and I'm going to go to like a lot of those people post because they, they find that perfect selfie whatever they want because they want affirmation and I'm gonna give them that in the DMS as well. Even if that's just like cute dog, whatever. Because then it's a lot more personal in the stories and in the DMS and so like, yes, I'll post the stories. Sometimes I'll post my work in the stories, but I do tend to be a lot more personal in the stories. We'll talk about our foster children and we'll talk about me either like speaking at an event or as being on vacation or things like that because people do associate with personal brands. I think it's that it's people are seven times more likely to buy from a personal brand or buy when I think it was like when they employees of a company post rather than when the company posts. And so they brought it from a more personal brand rather than just large brands. And so it just converts a lot better when you can be more personal. But I think you can also just be personal by sliding into the DMS and bringing that value as well.

Scott: You know, that, that's one of the reasons why Imagely started this podcast in the first place was to put a, an and the reason why we're doing it video is to put face faces. And mainly it's me doing it at imagery but, but faces to to the company cause otherwise, you know, sure we have a team page, but otherwise you're just looking at a company that you don't know who's who. So now when somebody thinks about imageries or they're thinking about my, my ugly mug, talking to them, you know, with him. But it's more mindset I guess, but it's more personal. Yeah. so two other two to basically two final questions I have about, about strategy. One is do you have a hashtag strategy when you do posts, which by the way, I do about once or twice at most a week as well. But hashtags, do you have a strategy to optimize for hashtags or is it just go with the flow?

Devin: Yeah. So I think like there's a misconception behind hashtags is that like, Oh, because it allows you to do 30, then do 30, quite, I haven't heard statistics that if you do 30 then you're more likely to be like seen as like a bot account that posts just 30. And so I would suggest, I think I say 25 to 27 hashtags in your comments in three in the caption. So that's like kinda how I tend to do it. Now you also want to be very kind of have like a, I have a certain, I can't remember the word, but like associate you amount of likes you get with a photo with the hashtags that you use. So like don't use hashtag wedding cause that millions of posts per day on it use something that's more niche or more specialized. If you get like, it's like if you get a hundred a hundred likes per photo, then use hashtags that are that are around 100,000 posts because then you're more likely to be on that top nine or whatever to being found.

Devin: And so what I'll do is I'll do nine in that hundred thousand posts and then I'll do nine in like the, the 200, like the 300,000 to 500,000. And then I'll do another nine in those like heavy hitter ones that, you know, get a little bit over that in the post. And that's like how I've researched my hashtags and scripted out my hashtags. I also use keyboard shortcuts for hashtags. If you are copying and pasting hashtags, then you are wasting a lot of time. I will put Charlotte wedding crest space and all my heart, my hashtags for Charlotte come up.

Scott: So, so I used to do that. But I was introduced to an app that I fell in love with. Cool. And it helps me optimize what hashtags are actually doing stuff. It's called smart hash. Okay. So and I can, I'll send you a link to it. I'll put it in the show notes as well. Boston, your link to it. It's iOS, Android and web. So you can even do it if you're doing something on the web that it lets you split test your hashtags and also, and also lets you get, she gives you a heat map of what is actually working getting you engagement so that way you know, okay, well this one's not working. I should stop using it. And also let you research hashtags that might be related to a search turn that you have.

Scott: That's awesome. I just looked it up. Yeah. So it's a, it's pretty sweet actually. If you watch the video that's on the homepage of it, it's a review that I have. I did that. I did okay on YouTube. They just add it to their home page was pretty cool. So, so smart hash is what I use, but I did use to use your strategy of doing the, the, the text shortcut, the keyboard shortcut. So, so my, my final question is I noticed that you have one of those link in bio links, like the link tree or whatever service that you're using. And there's tons of those out there. So my question to you is why aren't you just linking to your website itself and adding the same content that's on the link tree link to your website?

Devin: Basically like one part of it is cause I was just lazy so I keep it man, I keep it real bro. Like I will keep it 100. I keep it so real and so I totally could do that and then I could pick so and I can do all that stuff. But like one of the hard parts about pixeling is like I don't know exactly where that comes from. And so if you look on that link tree, it goes to different parts of my website, which is great. People can click on the different things, which I could still do on my website as well. But I just did that just because it's been easier and I just didn't want to have to redo something like that. I totally could. I just did. Hmm.

Scott: Okay. All right. Well, I think I think, yeah,

Devin: I also don't, I also, sorry, I was going to say, I also haven't like seen a lot of data from that that shows a lot of people click. That made it like worth it for me to go, I need to do this right away. I could even, because one is better than none, but I just, I just hadn't done it.

Scott: Cool. I think what I might do for episode 93 for the next episode of this podcast is continue on on the Instagram topic and even maybe show people how to make a Lincoln bio page on their own site. I think that might be an interesting, I think for people to see. That would be cool. And, and maybe even do a quick demo demonstration of a apps and stuff that I use for, for Instagram. Duh. That way I can connect it to this episode as well. So that can be pretty cool. You should. So anything that you want to share that you would like the listeners and viewers of the, of this episode to check out that you're doing or any final advice you want to share

Devin: About Instagram strategy? Yeah, I guess the final advice I would, I would say is just do it like you're on Instagram anyways. So now make it intentional and do something about it and start to seek out like even if it's just going in and following, like I'll go in, I'll follow and then I'll like, like the first seven photos of that person to try and get their attention. Even if you do something like that, like even if you do that to a couple of people, you'll start to notice that you'll start to, you'll start to get more people interested in you because now what I'm doing is generating a lot of warm leads because they'll come to me, are ready, preface, we already have a relationship. They're already ready to buy from me rather than somebody that's just kind of searching for a photographer. There's a relationship that's been built, so do the work because in the long run it will work.

Devin: And I guess if there's something that I guess anything I'm doing or something like that, the only thing I would say is also just you could join me in my Facebook group. I love the Facebook group because I just want to give a ton of value in there. I will answer just about every single question that gets answered, if I can answer it. And a, and I just, I just love being able to help people and so you can find that anchored or you could just search in the anchored education group on Facebook.

Scott: Awesome. I'll also link to it in the show notes. So if you go to the show notes page, you'll be able to access it and, and everywhere that you'll be able to find. Devin. so thank you so much for joining the show today. I, this is a fantastic topic. I think my two biggest takeaways that I'm going to get started on immediately are one, follow more, more target clients and to get those keyboard shortcuts in there for act for comment. I think that is, I wish I've been doing that all along and now I'm like going to, you know, I want to hit myself for not doing it, but I can get it done. Hey you and I hope everybody else who's listening gets that done. But there's been a ton of value here, so thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Scott: Yeah, no problem. And also if you want to, I have a bunch of keyboard shortcut, like things like that. In my group. I have a unit section with like videos on it and stuff like that because I have for dresses and people on Valentine's day or anniversaries, all of that stuff. Super easy. Awesome. Yeah, that's great. So you can find the show notes where to find Devin, like his Facebook group. You can check out his weddings, his podcast. I've all, these will be linked in our show notes at 92 and don't forget to subscribe to the show on Apple podcast, Spotify, Pandora, Google play, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time.

clean no 40:04 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 91 – What Your Photography Business Needs Thu, 14 Nov 2019 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 91 clean no 7:57 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 90 – Automated Print Lab Fulfillment in WordPress Thu, 31 Oct 2019 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 90 clean no 4:06 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 89 – Too Much WordPress Stuff? Thu, 17 Oct 2019 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 89 clean no 18:25 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 88 – How Fast Is Your Photography Site? 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Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:50:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 72 clean no 13:45 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 71 – Sticky Clients, Like Glue w/ Nate Grahek Thu, 20 Dec 2018 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 71 clean no 59:28 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 70 – Install Gutenberg Right Now Thu, 06 Dec 2018 13:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 70 clean no 8:52 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 69 – Being Thankful and Thinking About 2019 Wed, 21 Nov 2018 15:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 69 clean no 4:06 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 68 – Making Client Onboarding Awesome w/ Latoya Dixon Smith Thu, 08 Nov 2018 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 68 clean no 34:32 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 67 – This Is Season 3 Thu, 25 Oct 2018 14:00:50 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 67 clean no 5:45 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 66 – Personal Brand Photography w/ Jamie Swanson Thu, 16 Aug 2018 11:30:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 66 clean no 39:20 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 65 – Optins & Mobile SEO Thu, 02 Aug 2018 14:00:06 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 65 clean no 4:05 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 64 – Outsourcing Blogging & Newsletters w/ Beth Teutschmann Thu, 19 Jul 2018 13:00:38 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 64 clean no 39:30 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 63 – SEO Bootcamp for Photographers w/ Brandon Hopper Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:00:09 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 63 clean no 16:14 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 62 – Is Facebook Sharing The Wrong Image? Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:00:10 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 62 clean no 8:32 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 61 – Important Yoast SEO Patch for a Ranking Bug Thu, 07 Jun 2018 13:00:11 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 61 clean no 8:53 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 60 – Celebrating the WordPress 15th Anniversary w/ Christine Tremoulet Thu, 24 May 2018 13:00:14 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 60 clean no 25:18 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 59 – A Rock And A Hard Place Thu, 10 May 2018 13:20:34 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 59 clean no 6:19 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 58 – Nurturing With Personalized Videos w/ Julie Christie Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:00:31 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 58 clean no 37:15 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 57 – Sell With Your Photography Website w/ The Blumes Thu, 12 Apr 2018 13:00:29 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 57 clean no 39:38 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 56 – Virtual In-Person Sales w/ Chris Scott Thu, 29 Mar 2018 12:00:37 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 56 clean no 42:58 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 55 – A WordPress Customizer Productivity Tip Thu, 15 Mar 2018 13:00:46 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 55 clean no 2:28 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 54 – Blogging Advice for Photographers w/ Esther de Boer Thu, 01 Mar 2018 14:00:42 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 54 clean no 33:54 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 53 – You Need An Email List Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:00:45 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 53 clean no 4:22 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 52 – Image Optimization for Site Speed Thu, 01 Feb 2018 14:00:58 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 52 clean no 14:31 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 51 – Is Content The Word of 2018? w/ Kim Doyal Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:00:43 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 51 clean no 42:47 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 50 – Don’t Drop The Ball Thu, 04 Jan 2018 12:00:11 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 50 clean no 2:15 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 49 – Automating Lead & Client Nurturing w/ Mailchimp Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:00:56 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 49 clean no 12:33 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 48 – Street Photography Website Essentials w/ Valerie Jardin Thu, 30 Nov 2017 12:00:58 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 48 clean no 33:17 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 47 – Elementor’s Blank Canvas Template Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 47 clean no 3:03 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 46 – Know Your Audience w/ Ugo Cei Thu, 02 Nov 2017 11:00:35 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 46 clean no 35:17 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 45 – Why photographers should use push notifications Thu, 19 Oct 2017 11:00:46 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 45 clean no 4:43 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 44 – One Stop Shop for Support & Maintenance w/ Brandon Hopper Thu, 05 Oct 2017 11:00:21 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 44 clean no 27:04 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 43 – Finding Content Ideas Through Inspiration w/ Marc Silber Thu, 21 Sep 2017 11:00:34 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 43 clean no 40:34 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 42 – Live from Out of Chicago Photography Conference w/ Charlie Clemmer Thu, 07 Sep 2017 11:00:29 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 42 clean no 20:45 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 41 – The Future & Feedback Thu, 01 Jun 2017 11:00:26 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 41 clean no 10:28 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 40 – WordPress Photography Q&A Volume 4 Thu, 18 May 2017 11:00:56 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 40 clean no 19:01 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 39 – Expectations & Consistency In Your Branding w/ Bryan Caporicci Thu, 04 May 2017 11:00:52 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 39 clean no 37:58 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 38 – Engaging Video for your Photography Website w/ Daniel Usenko Thu, 20 Apr 2017 11:00:50 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 38 clean no 39:21 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 37 – Marketing Evolves So Evolve With It w/ Rosh Sillars Thu, 06 Apr 2017 11:00:15 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 37 clean no 35:42 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 36 – The Importance of Branding & Consistency w/ Lena Hyde Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:00:27 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 36 clean no 34:07 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 35 – Why CoSchedule should be installed on every photography website Thu, 09 Mar 2017 12:00:45 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 35 clean no 5:05 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 34 – ShootDotEdit Acquires Fotoskribe, and What It Means for Photographers Thu, 23 Feb 2017 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 34 clean no 47:59 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 33 – WordPress Misconceptions & Confusions Thu, 02 Feb 2017 12:00:20 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 33 clean no 37:34 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 32 – Photography SEO in 2017 w/ Corey Potter Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 32 clean no 56:03 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 31 – Photography Business Resources for 2017 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 12:00:19 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 31 clean no 48:38 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 30 – WordPress Photography Q&A Volume 3 Thu, 22 Dec 2016 12:00:03 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 31 clean no 53:50 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 29 – Content Management For Your Photos w/ Angela Bowman Thu, 08 Dec 2016 12:00:20 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 29 clean no 57:14 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 28 – Do The Work First w/ Seshu Thu, 24 Nov 2016 12:00:31 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 28 clean no 56:10 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 27 – Your Future Self Will Thank You w/ Twyla Lapointe Thu, 10 Nov 2016 12:00:56 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 27 clean no 54:14 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 26 – Outsourcing Website Tasks In Your Photo Business w/ Chris Aram Thu, 27 Oct 2016 11:00:05 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 26 clean no 42:32 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 25 – How to find content to blog about Thu, 13 Oct 2016 11:00:46 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 25 clean no 2:33 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 24 – Start Slow To Build The Skill w/ Nathan Ellering of CoSchedule Thu, 29 Sep 2016 11:00:27 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 24 clean no 49:13 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 23 – Add A Narrative To The Image w/ Don Komarechka Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:00:13 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 23 clean no 48:15 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 22 – Remove Business Paralysis, Be Persistent, Be Unique & Work Hard w/ Jasser Abu-Giemi Thu, 01 Sep 2016 11:00:50 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 22 clean no 45:51 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 21 – Keep Them Coming Back To Your Site w/ Nancy Nardi Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:00:24 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 21 clean no 43:01 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 20 – WordPress Photography Q&A Volume 2 Thu, 04 Aug 2016 11:00:29 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 20 clean no 55:09 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 19 – Building A Photography Resource & Community w/ A.D. Wheeler Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:00:53 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 19 clean no 56:44 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 18 – Some Things Are Simpler With Page Builders w/ Robby McCullough Thu, 07 Jul 2016 11:00:22 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 18 clean no 57:15 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 17 – Outsourcing, Work Life Balance & The 3 To 1 w/ Rachel Brenke Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:00:59 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 17 clean no 46:00 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 16 – Don’t Be Lackadaisical About Your Security w/ Brian Matiash Thu, 09 Jun 2016 11:00:51 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 16 clean no 59:29 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 15 – Stop Slowing Down Your Site With Huge Images, Or Too Many w/ Mark Allen Thu, 26 May 2016 11:00:10 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 15 clean no 47:45 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 14 – Think About Your Content First w/ Aaron Hockley Thu, 12 May 2016 11:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 14 clean no 50:50 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 13 – Goodbye Squarespace Hello WordPress w/ Anna Sawin Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:00:26 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 13 clean no 47:56 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 12 – Be A Meticulous Entrepreneur w/ Colby Brown Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:00:07 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 12 clean no 45:05 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 11 – Content That Travels With You w/ Andrew Funderburg Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:00:44 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 11 clean no 47:04 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 10 – WordPress Photography Q&A Volume 1 Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:00:57 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 10 clean no 50:57 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 9 – Keep Refining, It’s A Constant Process w/ Chamira Young Thu, 03 Mar 2016 12:00:05 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 9 clean no 42:13 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 8 – Just Do It And Fail Through It w/ Blake Rudis Thu, 18 Feb 2016 14:00:57 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 8 clean no 54:05 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 7 – The 80/20 Rule In Photography And Websites w/ Jake McCluskey Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:00:44 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 7 clean no 42:05 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 6 – Website Structure & Content Marketing w/ Bryan Caporicci Thu, 21 Jan 2016 14:00:13 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 6 clean no 53:56 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 5 – Wedding Photographer Websites on WordPress w/ The Youngrens Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:00:24 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 5 clean no 44:33 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 4 – Outsourcing In A Photography Business w/ Jared Bauman Thu, 24 Dec 2015 15:00:17 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 4 clean no 42:41 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 3 – WordPress is 25% of Websites, Yet Squarespace? w/ Tamara Lackey Thu, 17 Dec 2015 15:00:13 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 3 clean no 58:37 Scott Wyden Kivowitz