The WordPress Photography Podcast The podcast for photographers looking to learn and do more with their WordPress photography websites. Conversations tailored to making WordPress more than just a tool and more of a part of your photography business. Thu, 16 Jan 2020 20:37:25 +0000 en-US © Imagely - Podcast Episodes are Property of Imagely. WordPress is a trademark of The WordPress Foundation. Making WordPress Easy For Photographers Imagely episodic The podcast for photographers looking to learn and do more with their WordPress photography websites. Conversations tailored to making WordPress more than just a tool and more of a part of your photography business. Imagely clean The WordPress Photography Podcast Episode 95 – Swipe Up Without 10,000 Instagram Followers Thu, 16 Jan 2020 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 95 If you have less than 10,000 followers on Instagram then you cannot natively do a swipe up inside of an Instagram Story. But there is a workaround that anyone can utilize. In this episode, we will show you exactly how to do it.

Let's get Matt on the show!

@imagely, I want to see @photomatt on episode 100 of the WordPress Photography Podcast.

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What we discuss:

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Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Welcome to episode 95 this is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and today we're going to continue with a topic on Instagram and I have one goal with this, with this episode of the podcast, and it is to show you that if you are a photographer with under 10,000 followers on Instagram, you can actually do a swipe up feature in your Instagram. Stories you have to do is sort of a a hack a work around in order to make it happen. You can't just do it like somebody who actually has 10,000 followers can do it where it's built in. You have to do a workaround, so I'm going to show you using Facebook's creator studio. If you are not using creator studio, I recommend it especially to upload your Instagram stories. Anything you make on your computer that you want to upload to your Instagram, you can actually post to your feed and to your IgE TV, which you're going to need as well by connecting your creator studio on Facebook to your Instagram account.

Now all this does. If you go to and create a studio being one word in that URL, then you can then connect your Instagram account. You connect your Instagram account and your Facebook page and you then have access to edit, modify, and also post to your Instagram feed, your Instagram stories and your Instagram IgE TV. So what you would do once you're all set up with that is you make sure you're in the Instagram tab. Go to create post, choose I G T V Instagram TV, and you're going to go ahead and you're going to create a new post to your Instagram accounts. And yes, as you probably just thought, if you're watching this episode, then you probably just saw that you can actually connect multiple pages and multiple interim accounts to the creator studio. So that is really nice. Then you will go ahead and you will upload the file.

You can import it from your Facebook page if you have stories that you've created on your Facebook page and you want to utilize or you can actually upload a file. So I create all my stories inside of final cut pro. And so I do it just upload that file that I created there. You can also upload a custom image if you want, and of course has to be a vertical image, but you can upload a custom image. You then are going to create your title. So this is my amazing title. That is the title. I'm going to use the sample title. And then I have these emojis that I use that, that I include. I have them in a app or note and I just copy and I paste them here. And you can see that there's two, if you're again watching this episode, I have a down arrow and a mouse click.

There is no touch. I'm like tap phone emoji. I wish there was, but I can't find one that really works well. So basically I am saying, you know, you can tap to look down and then the description, here's where the fun hack comes into play in the description of IgE TV. You can put a URL and that URL is clickable on the phone, right? Whereas if you were using an Instagram post, normal in your feed and you put a URL, it's just text, they don't make it tappable clickable on the phone, which means that if you're sharing a blog post and you want to say go to this blog post and you type it in, you have to say or visit my LinkedIn bio and click the link in the bio. And that's annoying. So the workaround is saying, okay, here's the link to the blog post, right?

You put in your URL to the blog post and then you put description. This is my amazing description. And you put that in for the IGT V episode, the, the T V IGT V episode you're making, and then you hit publish or you can actually schedule it. You can schedule your IgE TV and also your feed all in creative studio. It's really nice to do on the desktop. Now, I mean, I use buffer as you saw in the last episode. I, you actually use buffer for our us to say two episodes ago. I use buffer to schedule my Instagram posts, but for stories and ID TV, I do it all in creator studio because it's just so much easier whenever I have one that I've created on the computer, not on my phone. Right? I mean, okay, so you post, you publish that, right?

You have it all done. Next thing to do is actually go and create an Instagram story. So we're going to go ahead and create a story. I'm going to say this is my story and say swipe up. Now of course you can, you can add in. You can add in stickers. So I'm going to add a swipe up sticker and obviously the color isn't great, so I'm going to change the color. There we go. This is my story. Swipe up. And now what you're gonna do is there's a link icon. You're going to click that link icon and choose the IgE TV video that you just created and you're going to hit done. And now what's going to happen is that in your, in your story, there's going to be for people watching, there's going to be that swipe up feature. And when they swipe up, it's actually going to take them to the story, so when they swipe up, they're going to see this.

They're going to see the YouTube TV episode that you created. You can see the title, we'll have the emoji, which is more visible, and when they go to click it, it's going to bring down the description with that link and then they can click the link and they can get to the page you want them to get to. It's okay. Is that simple, but it's still a hack that you have to do. Unfortunately, if you don't have the right amount of, of a of subscribers, if you don't have 10,000 which is not your fault, I mean it, it, it, it happens and not everybody has a goal of getting to 10,000 followers. Not everybody needs to gets a 10,000 followers for their photography business. If you're not there, you have a way to do a swipe up with a little bit of extra work rather than swiping up and going right to the URL that you're saying they're swiping up and they're going to an IgE TV, which then will then send them to the link you want them to go to.

So there you go. That is a episode 95 I can't believe we're in episode 95. I hope that you're enjoying this sort of a multi-part series on Instagram. What would be really cool is I've had, if I can get to episode 99 all on Instagram, that is my goal and that way episode 100 will be something super special. I don't know what it would be yet, but I'm still working on it. I'm, if you think that'd be cool to have Matt Mullenweg come on the WordPress photography podcast. Matt Mullenweg is the original creator of WordPress. Please just ping us on Twitter, on Instagram, wherever it is, Facebook ping us and just say, I want you to get Matt on episode 100. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. Check out the show notes on 95 see you in the next episode.

clean no 7:54 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 94 – Focus on Local with Christine Tremoulet Thu, 02 Jan 2020 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 94
Christine Tremoulet

Christine Tremoulet is a brand photographer for speakers & coaches and also a coach for photographers. She launched her photo business in 2007 but she named WordPress in 2003. Yes, she named gave WordPress the name we’ve come to know today. Christine came from a digital strategy background in the photo industry. She believes in the power of supporting local to grow your business. She is the founder of InstaLocal (TM), the InstaLocal Prompt Planner, and Photographer's Inner Circle. She also has a new podcast coming out soon called Reframe Success.

Joke of the day:

Why was the photo arrested? Because it was framed.

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What we discuss:

  • Her new podcast, Reframe Success
  • Should destination photographers consider local marketing to wherever their home base is? Or specifically to destinations, they prefer their client's weddings at?
  • Do you really need 10k Instagram followers to be successful?
  • What is InstaLocal and how did it come about?
  • How posting content also on Instagram transforms into networking a local business
  • Who should you surround yourself with on Instagram?
  • Any strategies to find those people?

Where to find Christine:

Referenced Links:


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Scott: Why was the photo arrested? Because it was framed. Welcome to episode 94. My name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and I'm joined by my guest, Christine Tremoulet. Hey Christine, welcome back to the show. It's good to be back on the show. Yeah, you were a guest number two back, I guess three years ago, four years ago. I don't even know how long it's been, but so, you know, obviously we've talked a lot since then, but you know, our guests haven't seen your face or her from you or our listeners rather in since episode two. So or a little less, there's less there. You know,

Christine: We did another episode in the middle for the WordPress anniversary.

Scott: Did we? Oh, okay. I'll have to look up which episode that was. I don't remember. Yeah. You know what? And I think, I think we did that to tell a little bit of the backstory about WordPress. So, so with that for those who don't know, Christine actually did name WordPress in 2003. She knows Matt Mullenweg and helped him come up with a name. And for those who don't know, Matt was the original developer of WordPress and now obviously there's thousands and thousands of people who develop WordPress, but thousands. So Christine is a brand photographer for speakers and coaches and also a coach for photographers. She launched her photo business in 2007 and also named WordPress in 2003. She came from a digital strategy background in the photo industry. She believes in the power of supporting local to grow your business and she is now the founder of Insta local and the insula goal prompt planner and the photographers inner circle. She has also has a new podcast coming out soon. Now by the time that this episode airs, the podcast will probably be out already called reframe success. So first, welcome to the show Christine. And too, I'm going to ask you what's going on with you, but really I want to know more about reframe success

Christine: That, I mean actually what you summed up is what's going on with me. I've been traveling a lot recently with my photography work. I have clients all over. Which is a little ironic because I believe in the power of local. So I do have local clients, but I have traveled recently pretty extensively with one client in particular for most of it, including going to France and Southern France. Everybody always thinks I met Paris. I actually, we went to nice and cons and a day trip to Monaco, et cetera. And then I also went out to Palm for her to photograph a conference that she put on. So that's been really fun. I've spent a lot of time traveling recently and reframe success. I learned a lesson several years ago from a friend of mine when I was talking about my vision for success, which for me at the time included, you know, hitting higher in the six figures and so forth, growing my business more.

Christine: And she apologized to me. She told me, she's like, that's not so, like, that's not my vision of success. She's like, I don't, I don't want that at all. This is what I want my photography business to look like. She was soldiering some teaching at the time and she wanted to be able to just work certain times of the year and essentially she wanted her photography business to just be a part time addition. She wanted the summers off so she could be with her kids who are still young at the time. And it made me realize that what success looks like for you and what success looks like for me, what success looks like for the next person. It's completely different for every single one of us. So it's so important to talk about, you know, what does success look like because I don't, I don't feel that she was, she's not unsuccessful in her business. She's exactly successful. She's ending her goals, just her goals aren't mine. And and then also to discuss like what are the things that we do to make us successful? How do we get to achieving our own success in our photography business?

Scott: Great. That sounds like a great, a great podcast.

Christine: A lot of business tips, a lot of life life, life tips. I I used to say, I, I feel like in a way I'm a business life coach, but I am not a life coach in any way. I don't sit and help people have better lives, but I want them to have a better business life so that they make more money.

Scott: Yeah. I, I'm, I can't wait till that launches because you know, I have my, my vision for success. And it's probably far different than so many others. Which, you know, like you said, everybody has their own vision of it and so I'll be interested to hear what others think and how they got there and maybe I'll be able to take some of those strategies and use it.

Christine: And you, I even want to talk about like what are the struggles that we hit along the way because it's not always easy. And a lot of times we talk about the easy part, but we don't talk about the hard part. So yeah. I can't wait to have you on as a guest. Thanks. Thanks. I look forward to it. We're going to talk about vision of success.

Scott: Yeah. So, so in that, in that little intro about the podcast, you mentioned how you've been traveling a lot, but your, your, your big, your big focus is teaching about local connections. So can you talk about how photography destination photographers, whether weddings or personal brand photographers or whatever they are that do travel a lot why should they consider local marketing and should it be where they are or should it be where their preferred clients are?

Christine: Yes, and that was actually a yes to the like, yes, it should be where they are, am or their preferred clients are. But for the majority of photographers, even if we have a destination type of business, we,

Christine: Our bread and butter is still normally where we are located. When I was photographing weddings full time several years ago, I, I did a lot of destination weddings. I probably did one a month, sometimes two a month. Okay. Maybe not that many. I do know that there was one year where I had eight destination weddings. Several of those people found me though, because I'm based in Houston. So they were researching, like flying a photographer in and where for their destination, where was it less expensive to fly a photographer in from? And Houston's a great hub city for that. So people actually found me for destination work because of where I was based. Another point is to get into talking about like talking about yourself becomes a little bit easier for one of the topics you talk about is where you live. That is a character in your story. So even if I work with you, I still care about where you live. Even if you're coming to me in Houston, I want to know something about you. And so having that network helps and most destination photographers that you talked to, this goes back to like the honest truth be like destination work is amazing and glamorous and glorious and everybody thinks it's so incredible and it is, it's also really tiring

Christine: And very exhausting. And I found for me that like, and I love to travel. I mean I just spent eight weeks gone from no nine for gone, but aye. Aye. There hits a point where you don't want to travel much more than that unless you are specifically living a nomadic lifestyle, which I do know people that have done that. But those are, I mean, that's, that's not the norm for most people's lives. Right? It looks cool. We all want to do it, but that's not the norm. So you really do have a home base no matter what. And talking about it is beneficial now. But would you want to market in your area or the area you're trying to go to? Depends on if you've picked just one area that you want to go to. And in, in reality, yes, Instagram is going to be super helpful for that, but your blog will be as well because Google's going to index your blog.

Scott: Right? Right. So speaking of Instagram I think there's a, a common misconception about the power of followers. So I have, I think like somewhere around somewhere around 2000 followers, Instagram, something like that, maybe three, something like that. I dunno. And it's been effective in some ways. In some ways it hasn't. I'm sure I'm not being as strategic as I can be for my photography business. And so I'm wondering if the misconception is real or fake myth or true that you need 10,000 followers or more to really see some success on Instagram.

Christine: I believe that that is one of the biggest myths hurting our industry. I've known people personally had one-on-one in face conversations with them. You know, the behind the scenes things that they're never going to post on social media, knowing people that have 40, 50, 60,000 followers that don't have full calendars. So like it, they've got tons of followers, but those followers are global. This is actually part of how the whole insole local thing all came together. I realized their followers are everywhere around the world and they're following them and they're loving what they're putting out, but they're not necessarily coming to where they're at and booking them or flying them to them and booking them. They're just admiring their work. Right? And that's awesome. But that's that strategy that we talk about. I really, I don't care how many followers you can have. I care how many are converting.

Scott: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how do you get those people who are, are lurking and liking all your stuff to actually book you for something or buy from you from something, something you're selling?

Christine: Right. And I mean, if your goal is to, I'm talking averages here. Somebody always pops up and says, I run a studio and we have a hundred clients a day. And I'm like, cool. You're not the average photographer, professional photographer. So we're talk, we're talking to the majority here. I realize there are outliers. This isn't, may not apply to you outliers. I understand. Let me just, I love, I just like, I always feel like I need a disclaimer. This might not be you, but for the rest of us, if you're a portrait photographer, what do you want? 150 clients a year? You know, maybe. I mean, I know that there are some people that do multiple sessions a day, et cetera. Most of us don't. So maybe you want a hundred clients a year. Do you need 10,000 followers to get to a hundred clients? No. You need a hundred people following you that are

Scott: Interesting. Heck, if you're, if you're a brand photographer, you potentially need five followers and five calls.

Christine: I mean, that's actually my, my personal goal. You know, I have two, I have three clients that I would call, like my super clients that I photograph them multiple times a year. I've already got things booked in the next year where I'm going to be at events that they're speaking at. I'm photographing and speaking. I do their brain sessions so that they have collateral for their websites. But aside from that, I only maybe want 10 other followers and I mean 10 other clients. And some of those clients just come from association. They see the photos that they like and they say, Hey, who took 'em? And then I've, I, that's how I ended up going to France was that, so now again, so let's say you want a hundred clients a year or 25 clients here, your wedding photographer. So that's really 50 clients, but 25 weddings to get to 50.

Christine: Do you need maybe 500 people to see you? You don't need 10,000, it's just so often that number is tossed around and I get it. You get the cool swipe up feature and Insta stories, but the game of using Instagram also completely changes when you tip that number, like how Instagram shows your post to people, how you so, so many people just, they, we tossed that number around as if like, it's this mythical number. My business will suddenly be busy once I get there. And then we spend a lot of time without a strategy to get people to see our work.

Scott: Two two things. One to, to address that swipe up thing that you mentioned. For those of you who know when you hit 10,000 followers, you can create a story and have it swipe out and then go to the link. There is a hack workaround for it, which I'll briefly touch on. You can create a regular story and a I G TV video and, and in there you can put a link and then from your story you could actually make a swipe up to your IgE store. A, I G TV and then somebody can click from there. So it's kind of, and you can use emojis to like point to the link and stuff like that. You have to be willing to record video though. Yes, yes, yes. You definitely. Or I mean you can, you could, if you want to take the time, you can make your own video without you on. Yeah. So there's things you could do. Obviously it's much easier if you just have a, you know, a swipe up, but, but you know, this is work. The other thing is you mentioned a little, just a little bit about how it's that that's how interlocal came to be. Could you talk a little bit about what instill Loco is?

Christine: Oh, for many years, and this is actually, we've talked about this on previous podcasts episodes for many years. People ask me, how did I get some fully booked my first year in business? And I've always credited my blog. I've always said, you know, it was because of having a blog and that people found my work that way, et cetera. And I kept having this conversation about the 10,000 followers thing. Like, do we really need that? And how I believe that that's a huge myth. Yeah. And as I started looking back, I realize now back then, Twitter was not the cesspool of craziness that Twitter is now Twitter back then. I feel it was much more like the power of Instagram today where you could post things and you could talk to local people and you can make local connections. And I realized it wasn't just my blog, it was my activity in this social space where I was networking with other people.

Christine: I was connecting with them, I was talking to them pretty regularly. I was celebrating them, I was posting about them, not me on Twitter. And I've always told people, you know, go do blog posts about local businesses, talk up things that are local. But it just sort of all coalesced together earlier this year where I was like, wait, that's the entire strategy. Like go to Instagram, connect with local businesses, talk about local people share that you're doing things in your market. Share things that your ideal client might be interested in? Mmm, I always talk about my neighborhood. My neighborhood is amazing. I love my neighborhood. I live in the Heights in Houston, so I might go shop at 19th street, which is as my neighborhood's over a hundred years old. So 19th street would have been like the main street years ago. And so that's where all the shopping stores are.

Christine: You know, all the stores, there's several restaurants there. So I might, yeah, I might do, it's the story features every Sunday of local businesses. But what happens when you talk about somebody that's a local business, they see it and they get really excited and they share it because they love that somebody is talking about them. We're photographers, we have the skills, we can go take good photos and we can share about them and we can connect with these people and up our network of people talking about us all through Instagram and still use your blog because that's what Google indexes like any long posts that you create on Instagram, you can turn into a blog post. Yes. That that was going to be my next thing. So we all know that social media is a risky source of, of, of content, of, of, of making it your single source of content, right?

Christine: Because you know, you're, you're at the mercy of Facebook, of Instagram, of Twitter, of LinkedIn and Pinterest. You're at the mercy of them. You post it. They may not own the copyright of the text or the images that you post, but they own that content. It's theirs so they can pull it when they want. And not only that, but we've seen in the photography industry, we've seen reports of people's accounts being pulled, not just the post, the entire account gone. People with hundreds of thousands of followers gone like that. So it is good to rely on your own website as the single source of content, but also to share those in, in not just Instagram, all the places that your clients are at. Repurposing your content back and forth. Best thing ever. Get off the content treadmill and just right at once. And then we use it a lot of times. I always like to think sometimes I'm feeling more inspired on Instagram. I may have just read something.

Christine: It goes back to that question. You know, people are, sometimes they're intimidated about blogging, so I might feel more comfortable writing that whole caption out for Instagram. But you copy it, paste it back on your website, make it a micro. I mean, we've sorta, we've gotten so into how do I get the perfect SEO for my website? But things like microblogging don't seem to be as prevalent as they were, I dunno, seven or eight years ago. Okay. And I mean to do a microblog, let's say you do want to use your Instagram as your microblog, you can create a detailed blog post on your website that is good for SEO, that's educational for your clients and things like that. And then take, make little bullet points of, of takeaways from it. And then there's your microblog for Instagram. Right, right. And that microblog could be in the form of stories. It could be in the form of, of your feed IgE TV, whatever it is. Do you think IgE TV is going to last? I think it will. I think it will. But here's the, so let's say we had this great, amazing blog posts. It's got all the SEO in the world and it's, you know, 2000 words long and everything else. Can't you stick a blog post or two in between those that are just, here's one photo and a little description to say, yup. I mean, so like that's, I think we get, we start to make that every, every blog post has to be this great cornerstone content. They, they don't, you can slide these in between.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. Without a doubt. And I mean, heck, you could, you could actually post if you, I mean, you could cross post and say, you know, this, this is the blurb. And this is the photo. And you could also view this photo on Instagram if you'd like, you know, and send people back to Instagram to like it there. You can even embed the image from Instagram if you want. Or you could do, here's the photo. And then on Instagram, here's the behind the scenes from the photo and that's on Instagram, right? There's so many things you can,

Christine: There's so many things you could do to like cross populate this content.

Scott: Yeah. I would like to point out that as a anybody who's got a brand that they, so somebody like you or I who also teaches photography, right? We're photographers, but we also have our own brands. And from the education space, we should be doing more and more of what Gary Vaynerchuk does. But on a smaller scale scale, because we don't have billions of dollars.

Christine: I didn't want somebody following me around every day filming me. Okay. Some days I do want to yell at the camera. Yeah.

Scott: Yeah. So, so what I'm referring to is, is coming up with a piece of content and then you've got a little audio piece that you're throwing onto a mini podcast. You've got a piece that you're doing on video and putting it on Instagram. Another piece, it's a little bit longer that you're putting on YouTube or LinkedIn or and then you're making a, like a tall graphic for Pinterest. All related to that one piece of content. Photographers can do this and brands can do this.

Christine: Say photographers can absolutely do this. And they're not that like really important point. They're not, yeah. Mmm. It's almost like we slide into this hole of thinking, well, I'm just a photographer. Yes. But you're an expert at being photographed and for most of the world, being photographed is the most intimidating thing ever. Yeah. So you have so many tips that people want to know. They want to know that you're the expert and

Christine: It's not as easy as just saying, I'm the expert at photography in my market. They need proof. And also everybody else can just walk in and say that they're an expert. So what are your next Bert app? Why, why you, which actually brings me to another really good Instagram point for a lot of us because we're photographers and we have a lot of photographer friends. Those are a lot of the people that we follow on Instagram and a lot of the posts that we comment on are our friend photographer post, right? Those friends are probably not booking you and every action that you take on Instagram is telling the algorithm something. So if you're constantly, if all you follow is 2000 other photographers and you just talked to other photographers about other photography things and and the only people commenting on your stuff is other photographers. You are limiting who in your local market is seeing your work.

Scott: And so really you should be surrounding yourself with the people that you want to book you not, not with your friends and your family. Have two Instagram accounts. Yeah, your personal account. And this is the one where you

Christine: Follow all your friends and you do all the things and then have an account that is specific to your market who are businesses and potential customers that you follow. You meet, you connect with, you comment on their posts and your following account may not be as high, but it's also not artificially inflated by all the photographers that are following you.

Scott: Yeah. You know, it's funny. I, I've always been in the mindset, I still am that it, I fought and partially because I run the, the Imagely Instagram account and I run the other stuff and I've got like five or six Instagram accounts I'm running all at all given time that I don't want a separate one for myself because I already have too many that I have to deal with. Right. so I'm always been, I've always been the mindset like, one's good, but I get the benefit of having the, the other one you actually are

Christine: Doing it just not in the way that you expect. Because I bet that like you can sit and go through the Imagely account and get a lot of inspiration. Is this everybody that's every race pushback is, well, I use Instagram for inspiration and I'm like,

Scott: Cool.

Christine: Have an inspiration. You know, having an account where you go to operation, maybe you're not even that active on it, it's just so that you can easily get to the feed. And then have your your business account.

Scott: Yes, yes. On your market and your ideal client. Yup. Yeah. So my own, my own, my Scott Wyden Instagram account is only for my photography business. I have, I use the feed for for clients and then I use the inter IgE stories and I GTB and Instagram stories for my education side of the business. So I separate the two host personal things on my Instagram account all the time. Or not saying don't post personal things I do all the time,

Christine: But I do it thinking that my future client wants to know about me personally.

Scott: Yeah.

Christine: Oh yeah. All mixed together.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. The way I do that is it's like photos of my daughter for example, and then I tie that into family photos. Right, right. So, yeah. Okay. So we now know who we want to surround ourselves with on on Instagram. My last question to you are, are there any strategies that you have? And I asked the same question to a Devin Robinson two, two episodes ago. What's this is episode 92 any strategies to find those people.

Christine: Okay. So my favorite strategy is actually not to find those people, but to be found by those people

Christine: Using you properly using hashtags and using local hashtags. A lot of times I will do a Instagram account audits with people and we'll sit down, we'll look at their account and every post that they use has hashtag weddings, which I haven't looked recently. I, I'm off the top of my head. We're going to say that that hashtag has been used like a hundred, 300 million times. Like it's so used that if that's the only hashtag you're putting on your posts, it's going to get lost in a sea of posts in seven seconds. Like it's, no one is ever going to see your posts using that hashtag. So if you sit down and you look at what are other local businesses using, what are some, so you know,

Speaker 3: [Inaudible]

Christine: What are some hashtags that people are using in Houston that tie into what I do? And then using them using hashtags with a lower use count. So there's a hope that somebody will ever see your posts because they're not going to see it. If that hashtag is used a million times, you're probably not ever going to be seen. But if I use hashtag support local Houston,

Speaker 3: Yeah,

Christine: It's going to be seen. Yeah. Instagram is also not dumb. I mean like they are constantly building it. It's constantly growing. It's getting smarter by the day. That's a little terrifying. They're all going to take over some day smarter by the day. So if you use hashtags on your photo that have nothing to do with your photo, your caption, they're not going to reward you for that behavior. So don't be like, Oh, this is a popular hashtag. I'm just gonna stick it on my post andS and see what pops. Now, if I use support local Houston and I'm talking about a local business, Instagram knows what those words mean and that it will reflect probably what I'm posting about

Scott: For the record. What a hashtag weddings has just shy of 20 million posts.

Christine: Okay, well that's a little bit better than I thought it was. Cause I was thinking it was 200 million, 20 million still. That's a lot of posts. Like people are constantly using it. You're not gonna be found. And again that goes into that global versus local. You want to use a mix of those hashtags. Sure. You want to use some things that everybody uses it. People might be searching on [inaudible] but you also want to use things that people right in your market might be searching for.

Scott: Yeah. so do you, how do you, when you look for hashtags, are you literally just browsing Instagram or do you have a tool that you recommend that you use for it? I know we've talked about one that I use but I'm curious what, what you recommend for hashtag research?

Christine: I, I always just start out with browsing Instagram because the nice thing about it is Instagram will say, Oh, you're interested in this hashtag. Here's, here's my suggestions and I want to know what Instagram suggestions are. Until you told me that there was a tool for it, I didn't realize, well, I know that, you know, some of the schedulers will make suggestions of what you should use. I feel like sometimes the schedulers make suggestions again of those big global hashtags. They don't realize that you're trying to focus locally. Because at the core of it, that's it. Like so many things out there teach us to use Instagram as if we were commodities and global influencers. Like, I'm not trying, I'm not commodity you, I, I can't be folded up and put into a box and shipped to seven different places at one time. I'm not a commodity. So our strategy for using Instagram is, has to be really different. And so when I looked at a lot of the schedulers and the hashtags that they were suggesting, I was like, well, those are great, but they're global. These functions are built for people that are really dealing with commodities, not a service like us. So, but I do want to hear about the one that you use because I know you've said that you've used it with greater like with good results. Yes.

Scott: Yeah. So what I use the smart hash, I talked about this in a wood Devin as well in episode 92. And I actually if you go to episode 90 twos show notes, you'll see a link to a video that I did on smart national as well. But long story short, it does have a few things with hashtags, hashtag research or show you what has been working for other people and you can dig, dig in and it uses a to heat map app. So red is like super hot. It's on fire. Use that gray w as a feed from, from, you know, to reft. Yellow to gray. Gray is like, it's doing nothing for anybody. So you can browse a specific hashtags, you can dig into related hashtags to a hashtag. Doesn't give you stats on those hashtags, but it does just tell you how a good is doing. And then you could also go and create your own hashtag sets and split test hashtags to see what works best for you and with a, with a heat map. So you could do a lot more than that, but

Christine: We need to remind people, because I feel like I always have to say, silver number, you didn't hashtag sets awesome, awesome. Use hashtag sets, but notice it's sets. It's not one set, like, right. Don't copy and paste the exact same hashtags on every single post that you're using because Instagram's like, thanks cyborg. I'm not, I don't care. You know, it starts to, it will impact your, you're being seen don't cop. I mean, yes, you can use these sets and sometimes I shuffle things around or I pull a few out and put a few in and change things up. But don't use the exact same 27 hashtags on every single post that you make verbatim.

Scott: Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah. you wanna you want to definitely change it up. And that's one of the things that, that that smart hash does is you literally, you hit split tests and every time you do it, it's going to use a different group for you. And like I can tell right now, like my new job, I have a New Jersey family hashtag set, which I'm looking at right now. And one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 of them are doing stuff for me engagement wise, whereas the rest that I have in here, which is probably a good 60 or so hashtags in this set are doing nothing, which means right now I should remove all those and stop focusing on it. Right? And they're not doing anything for me. One of them is doing a lot, like one is red.

Scott: And then the next one is ours and the, the rest of the ones that are doing stuff are all yellow. But again, I have some of the yellow ones. I would keep them, Oh yeah, I'm click, I'm keeping all the yellow ones. I would remove all the gray, all the gray ones. And then of course, if you add new hashtags to that set, those are going to be gray until you start using it. So don't just remove a gray one unless you know for sure you've used it. But I have like, I have a New Jersey family set, I have a New Jersey cake smash set, which is actually is even doing better than the family one. And then I have a personal brand photography one, which is on fire. Like there's a lot of good ones there. And then I have a general photography one which I'm doing because a, it's me as a, my own personal brand trying to get sponsors. So I, I use other brand hashtags to get noticed. So anyway, that's, that's my, that's, that's sort of my strategy is using that tool to find good hashtags to use,

Christine: Which Instagram gives us a gift of the ability to put 30 hashtags on a post. Don't use just three, like use 20 or 30, use them. And you might use a hashtag that maybe it's only used 5,000 times, but you don't know. Maybe it's a hashtag for a venue and your next client is looking for stuff on that venue. And that's how they find you. You know, and I just, I, people can easily get really mired in what we're talking about right now. This like do you know, split testing and you know, getting all the data and everything. If that freaks you out, just start simple, just start using some hashtags, you know, worry about that. Like that's your face too, that's, that's later. Just get using hashtags, get in front of your local market and stop panicking that you have to get to 10,000 followers that that's, you know, this magic crescendo.

Christine: I know people with 4,000 followers that have waiting list of clients and people with, you know, like I said, 50,000 followers that aren't even fully booked. Yeah. Yeah. So the last question I have for you is if you can explain what the local prompt planner is. So what I did, so I have, I have a course on the full, like creating your Instagram strategy, like making a 18 minute a day strategy. But for some people they're like, Hey, I'm just barely in Instagram and I never know what to post. So I've created a, it's a, it's 365 prompts to help you come up with what you want to write is not fill in the blank. Like there's not, you know, here's this exact thing that you're going to post and it's a formula but much more, here's a topic, go write on it. I don't know about you, but sometimes I just get stuck.

Christine: I open, I hold the magic box in my hand of my phone and I wonder what on earth am I going to say today? Because all I've been doing today is, you know, sitting in my pajamas and editing. Okay. Not my pajamas, but I do warehouse pants a lot when I'm at home. So you know, I haven't, I haven't left my house and all day and I've just been editing all day and what am I going to say on Instagram that's exciting for people that's going to make somebody want to connect with me. Oh, here's a, here's something I can use. Here's something. If I sit down, if I do, if I preschedule using planner or plainly or later, or I just blanked on the buffer. Thank you. I was like, they started to say Buzzfeed and I'm like, that's not right, but it starts with a B, whatever you use.

Christine: If when you, if you feel stuck, like what am I going to talk about in this post science scheduling, they are prompts to help jog you to get you going. And initially the the first edition is a list that people can go in and edit. They can write their stuff. You know, maybe you work with an assistant virtual assistant or you have somebody on, you know, that does work for you, that does your scheduling for you. So you could write out what they should post and then they can schedule for you. We're also adding a calendar version, so it actually looks like a calendar on January 7th, I should post X. Nice.

Scott: That sounds amazing. So I'm going to link to both install local and the prompt planner and of course the photographer's inner circle. All in the show notes. So I want to thank you, Christine, for joining me today. I'm glad I did confirm it was episode 60. So you're on episode two and 60, which I will also link to in the show notes so everybody can go back and listen to those. Yeah, episode 60 was a 10th anniversary celebration where you and I hopped on and just celebrated WordPress being around for, for 15 years. 15 years. Yeah. 15 years. So tell the listeners w even though I will link to in the show notes anyway, tell the listeners the absolute best place to find more about you.

Christine: Well, I'm glad you're linking to it because the best place to find me is at Christine tremolo a that com. And I know it's not easy to spell.

Scott: I share that. I share that with my last name, so no worries.

Christine: It's not easy to sell. I understand. I should, I should probably, I keep saying I'm going to register like a shorter URL for using on shows, but you know, and the, so local information...

Scott: Nice. so you can find the show notes and where to find Christine at 94 don't forget to subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, Google play, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you again, Christine for joining and we'll see you in the next episode. Thank you for having me.

clean no 41:20 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 93 – Time-Saving Strategic Instagram Tools Thu, 19 Dec 2019 14:00:32 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 93 In today's episode, we dive a little deeper into what was discussed in Episode 92. We look at three tools that are designed to help save you time and to be strategic on Instagram.

After listening or watching this episode, if you have recommendations you would like to share, please comment. We look forward to seeing what works for you.

Joke of the day:

What happened to the fastest camera in the world? It burst into flames.

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Referenced Links:


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

What happened to the fastest camera in the world? It burst into flames. Hi, this is Scott Wyden Kivowitz. Thank you for tuning in to episode 93 of the WordPress photography podcast. Today we're going to talk about time-saving strategies using Instagram tools. Now if you listened to episode 92 with Devin Robinson, then you heard some really cool strategies as what you could do on Instagram to grow your business locally. Well using into the, and you heard some pretty pretty juicy details some really good strategies shared by Devin. Sophie did not tune into that episode. Be sure to listen to that episode 92, but today we're going to dive a little bit deeper and talk about some Thai time-saving strategic Instagram tools. And the first one I want to share is buffer. Buffer is and there are multiple plans. I am actually grandfathered in to their first plan that they ever had.

So I am not technically using their buffer for our business plan. I am on a plan that no longer exists and it's actually much less expensive than buffer for business now is. But even so if you have a profitable photography business and you need to do social media, need to find ways to save time on social media. Buffer for business is still a worthwhile service to, to pay for, to save time on social media. Basically the way buffer works, and I've talked about buffer numerous times previously on the show, but today I'm going to dive in deeper. Basically you have all of your social accounts, but we're going to be focusing on Instagram here and in there you can have a queue where you set the schedule. I have to go to settings and posting schedule. You can see that on the Imagely Instagram account we have it posting every day at 5:26 PM.

You could add multiple times a day. You can have posts as much as you want. You can quickly add times in bulk. You can change your time zone when you want to go out, things like that. So you had this queue of content that you want to share. You can view it in a list view, you can view it in a calendar view and and so on. Depending on the plan you're on the buffer, there's also a visualization tool where you can drag and drop it as it would look on your Instagram profile. And then it'll go into that order as well. And so basically you had this queue where you just click on what you want to add, you drag your image there, you type in your location and add to the queue, and then it'll automatically schedule it to go out at the next time that it's set.

So if you look at the screen right now, if you're listening, then obviously you can't look, but on the screen it says the next available time is 5:26 PM. And that's actually today the day I'm recording this. But then you can also hover over that time and switch it to a custom time. If you want to actually switch it to a specific day, a specific time, you could do that as well. You can also hit share. Now move it to the top. If it's at the bottom, move it up, move it down, edit it, delete it. You can drag and drop it where you want it and things like that. Really nice can even shuffle it. If you want to just randomize the order, you can do that as well. The way that this works is by default. It uses a reminder approach, meaning you install the buffer app on your phone, turn on push notifications and you will actually get a notification saying, Hey, this is ready to go out.

Just hit paste when you're on Instagram and it'll automatically do that and so on. But you can verify your Facebook and Instagram because they're really one in the same. You can verify those inside of buffer and and verify it through the app and it will actually automatically publish the photo for you or video for you at that given time without the need to send to her a reminder with a colon reminder. Now, if even if you have that setup, if you upload an image that is not the right proportions for Instagram, it will force a reminder because I need to crop it in the Instagram app. But that's, you know, few and far between depending on what you're trying to do and what images you share. So that's the buffer. The cool part is you can add multiple Instagram accounts. You could add multiple Facebook pages, Facebook groups, Twitter, LinkedIn, Pinterest, and so on.

There's a lot you could add and you can publish to all of them at once. You just select what you want, where do you want to go? And you can have a different queue for each thing. So if you look at the posting schedule for images, Instagram versus my own personal one, you'll notice that my own personal one is 8:00 PM that's because my own personal photography Instagram account gets more traffic on the weekends at 8:00 PM and more traffic during the week on Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays at 11:00 AM. So I have it set for different times, different days. It don't. And I, OMA, I'm always testing now. There's [inaudible]. There's also some analytics in here. It's not necessary to have the analytics in buffer because you can also get that right from Instagram itself. If you have a business account on Instagram, which you should if you have your business, so there's that.

You could also rebuffer if you want to add something that you previously had, you can rebuffer as well. Now that's buffer. Now the cool part is if you have buffer, if you're using buffer and you have it all set up, you can then check out a plugin called WP to buffer pro. Now there are two versions of this WP to buffer, which is completely free in the WordPress directory and then WP to buffer pro. I recommend for the price it's only a hundred dollars a year or $200 once to buy WP to buffer pro because unlocks so much more of what you could do and I'm going to just walk through real quick how this works. Basically when you set it up, you authenticate your website to your WordPress website with buffer and then it's going to show you all of your social accounts that you have available and it's going to give you the option of what you want to happen by default on publish.

If you update a post, if you want it to repost every so often and what bulk publishing is, I'll get to what all that is in a minute, but the first thing is setting up on publish. What do you want it to do? You will actually say that on publish. I wanted to go to here. I want to publish and say share the title of the blog post, an excerpt of the blog post and then a URL. Now the URL wallet, it's great, you know for Twitter and Facebook and LinkedIn and Pinterest and all that stuff. It's not very useful for Instagram, so I'll get to what I do differently in Instagram, but before I get to that I just want to tell you and show you what what I have been doing now. This is my own personal site. I've got a lot of exclusions because I don't want certain categories to be published.

And so that, that's, that's what I got going on here. I mean I've got it posting immediately to, to basically everywhere that's using the default and you could override default per social channel as you'll see in a little bit. And then I have it excluding a couple a couple of categories and then I have a, what's going on next? Next is number two is adding to the start of the queue of my buffer queue. So on publish it's going to publish immediately and then it's going to do another social post that's a little different and it's going to add to the top of the queue. And then it's also going to add another one, the third one at the bottom of the queue and it's again a different post. And then 15 days, 23 hours and 59 minutes just to divvy it up, it's going to add another one to my queue.

And then 30 days, 23 hours and 59 minutes is going to add another one to five posts by default with images and links and text, all different texts. By the way, all going out to social media. Now I have that for Twitter is actually overriding my default. So if you're watching this episode then you can see that you had the option to override the default when you enable an account and then Facebook page is just doing the default. So the page itself is posting and no overrides. Linkedin is posting with an override LinkedIn page. My photography business page is posting no variety. Okay. Now take a look at what I did on Instagram. Instagram gives it because you cannot link to th w cause you cannot actually link to like click on a link. Let's say in a description of a, of an image.

What I have is I have title the URL with a emoji pointing finger to my own profile. I mentioned myself at Scott Wyden and then it says, and click the link in bio so somebody can read the text, see the link, or they can go to my profile and click the link in the bio. And then right below that is an excerpt and that is publishing with the featured image of the post and that's it. Now what's really nice about the way that WPT buffer pro works is if you have a featured image, you don't want the featured image to go, you can actually set it up so that there's another image that's used specifically for Instagram through WP to buffer. And I'll show you that in a little bit, but that is how that works. And again, you can have that go out at anytime.

You can post it numerous times. It's all up to you. Now before we move on, I just want to show you a couple of things. One is the update option. You can also do social media post when you update your blog posts. I don't recommend doing that because unless you have a strategy or a specific reason to do it, I don't recommend it. Then there's also repost, which is fantastic because there is no limit to how many times you should be promoting your content. So what I have it set to do is it's actually set to repost my blog content in specific categories and it's doing that I think it's every 30 days or every 20 days. A new blog post gets re added to the buffer queue automatically and it's not published immediately. It's added to the end of the buffer queue.

And again, with images, with whatever text you want to say, you basically set up a template and it reuses it. Then there's something called bulk publish. This is where if you want to dig into your blog post archives, you can do that with a book published feature, which will allow you to fine tune based on categories or tags and then hit both publish and it will re edit to the end of the queue, the start of the queue whenever you want. And it'll do it for all of your social channels that you set up in the settings, so that's really nice as well. You can also do this for pages and if you have other custom post types, you can do that for those as well. If you have WP of buffer pro, it'll work on custom post types and give you the advanced Instagram options and things like that.

But otherwise you can do it with the free plugin on posts and pages. You can't do as many conditionals as you can in the free version like you can in the paid version. Okay, so that's important to know. Now when you're actually on a blog post, this is a brand new blog post you're seeing right now. If you were to scroll down and go down to the on the right side sidebar sidebar there, see, it'll say WP to buffer pro featured and additional images. There's four grids. The first image only replaces the featured image in a status where the status option is, is, is not set to use open graph settings. Okay. So that means like Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, places that give you the open graph option. You can replace the featured image that's being used on social media in through Doug Peter buffer pro. Using that first grid of the image grid that they give you.

Additional images only work where the status option is set to use featured image, not linked to a post meaning if that's for Instagram. So if you want Instagram to have three images right then or one image, then you use the second, third and fourth box that's available for images. It's as easy as that. So you just go in and you, you click on that and open to the media library and you choose the image you want being shared on Instagram. And again, you could do it three times, three times. Okay. The additional images only work where status option is set to use featured image, not linked to post. This is important. Okay. That is Instagram. You can do three images if you want to. That is no problem. In fact, if you have four images, if you have the main image plus three additionals, it will actually do that as well.

So that is, that is really nice that it gives you the ability to do that. I also want to show you that in the main content area, if you scroll all the way down, you'll notice I've got a bunch of things. So don't mind if you're watching. Don't mind the other plugin. But basically you'll see there's a some metadata for w w P buffer pro, including a log. And in there you can say, do not post a buffer. So if there's a blog post that you just do not want to be shared on buffer or on social media, you can choose, do not post it to buffer or you can say use the plugin settings. So that's the default settings that you already pre-configured or you can post to buffer using manual settings. Now this is useful for Christmas campaigns or any special thing where the social media posts are very limited.

They're not intended to use your default. This is where you can go in and manually adjust everything. Okay. So if you want something to go to Instagram's X amount of times you know, because on a special that you're having mini-sessions something like that, then maybe you want to override the default settings that you've pre-configured. So that is really, really, really useful. So so far we've discussed buffer as a software as a service and then WP to buffer pro which is a WordPress plugin that you can literally pay for once and use it forever. The next thing I want to talk about is smart hash. Smart hash is a app that I highly support and I will actually link to a video review. I did have it in the show notes so check that out if you want to see my review, my personal review on this.

But long story short, smart hash gives you the ability to research hashtags to see what will work well for you, what is going to work well in your local area, in your market, things like that. This is the smart hash app. Now it's a web based app but there is an iOS app as well. I think the Android version uses the web, so it's hard like a container, but the iOS app is what you see here. And there used to be a lifetime plan. I think that they got rid of the lifetime plan and now it's a monthly or annual plan, but it uses something called heat maps. So you could see red is really hot and as I scroll down it gets cooler and cooler. A white means that there's nothing good about it. But let's say style me pretty is something I want to explore.

I can hit more on that and see related hashtags to style me pretty good. All of these are all related to style me pretty wedding photography, right? So here click on more. We can dig into what's relevant, what is hot, what is really hot on the, on the heat map for wedding photography, right? And then you can click on these and copy them and you can add them to your hashtag set is I can click on individual hashtags and copy those selected hashtags or I can do what's called a split test copy and it's going to copy randomly a bunch of hashtags. So if I was to go ahead and I, I have buffer here and let's say I start a new post and I hit split test copy and I go here, you're going to see that it starts with Monro and J and M with MI Familia.

Right, and if I was to hit it, split test copy one more time and I was to erase that and override it. You can see the hashtags are now different so it's actually split testing. Every time I go to use hashtags it's going to try new ones. It's always going to include ones that are hot and then it will include a bunch that are not doing so well which will over time let's you, it helps you analyze and see what's working for you specifically and what is not to get you engagement. You can of course hit copy all, but I don't recommend doing that because you want to only do 30 at most at any given time. And if you listen to episode 91 of the podcasts you heard Devin, I believe you said 25 is the most he ever does. Okay, so you can do this.

It can, if you're a pay plan, you can do multiple multiple profiles. If I hit upgrade, you'll see that I've already upgraded. But there are some, you get multiple hash sets and Instagram accounts, full access to the Instagram insights and you can even engage and search for hashtag. So to give you an idea, besides the search feature, which you've already seen, and by the way, there's a daily top 100 as well, which is really nice. But you can also schedule if you want, you can schedule your Instagram photos and visualize it right inside of smart hash. The only downside is it uses the notification approach. It's not automated. You have to actually be notified with a push notification to then post it. Then there are insights where you can actually dig into your Instagram profile and see what days are working, what hours are working.

So when should you post your follower growth what locations are popular. All of these different things you can dig into a lot of that. And last but not least is the comments. So right from smart hash wire in it, you could reply to comments so, and if you're done you can just Mark it as done. So the smart hash is really nice too as a time-saver tool because you don't have to go back and forth between things. If you want to, you could schedule all from there. Of course there's always room for improvement and the developer is always improving to that is really nice to see. So there you have it. Episode 93 time-saving strategic Instagram tools, buffer, WPT, buffer pro and smart hash. Those are mine. Those are what I use to work on through an Instagram. Of course, I go into Instagram itself and I spend time and not terrible amount of time because I do schedule my posts. So most of the time I'm there. It's engagement rather than actually posting. But I'm curious, what tools do you use for Instagram, your Instagram strategy too, for posting, for scheduling, for content creation, for research, for hashtags, things like that. What do you use? So go to the show notes, 93 go down to the comments and let me know, share what you use for Instagram. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. And we'll see you in the next episode.

clean no 19:51 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 92 – Making it happen on Instagram with Devin Robinson Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 92

Devin Robinson has grown his business, Anchor&Veil, into a high-end destination wedding business where he travels all over the world photographing weddings. He has been in ten different countries and over twenty states.

His business now includes five other photographers and two cinematographers. So far this year Devin got over 400 Inquiries, has generated 110 wedding leads from Instagram alone and already reached $450,000 in revenue.

Devon also runs the Anchored Business Podcast and YouTube channel and has one of the largest wedding photography courses in the world in the Wedding Photography Masterclass.

Joke of the day:

What kind of photos does a turtle take? Shellfies.

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What we discuss:

  • Lead generation on Instagram
  • Client conversion on Instagram
  • Profile strategies
  • Story strategies
  • Hashtag strategies
  • Link in bio solution

Where to find Devon:

Referenced Links:


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Scott: What kind of photos does a turtle take? Selfies. Nice. Alright, cool. Cool. Cool. All right, I'll take it. Alright. Welcome to episode 92 my name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and I'm joined by my guest, Devin Robinson. Welcome, Devin. I'm glad to connect with you.

Devin: Hey man, I'm excited to be here. Also, really quickly, my two year old son loves turtles, like obsessed with turtles, so I will definitely tell him that joke. When I pulled out a camera, I'm going to say, Hey, let's take a, let's take a shellfy.

Scott: You're fine. That's the litmus test to a good corny joke is if you all can laugh at it. Right? That's for sure. Yeah, I definitely let me know what happens in the middle. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, so quick intro about Devin. Devin, a rod Robinson has grown his business anchor and veil into a high end destination wedding business where he travels all over the world photographing weddings. Right? So he has been in 10 different countries and over 20 States, but who's counting? Yeah. Wow. Sometimes it's nice. My dad, his, yeah. Yeah, I count. I have a whole map. That's cool. Fun. It's fun. It's fun. So, so Devon's business now includes five other photographers and two cinematographers. I think that's amazing. So far this year, Devin has got over 400 inquiries, has generated 110 wedding leads from Instagram alone and has reached 450,000 in revenue. And one of the reasons why I sort of emphasize on Instagram is because Instagram is today's topic. So Devin also runs the anchored business podcast and YouTube channel. As you, as you know, as if you're listening to the podcast. I am also pretty big on YouTube. I focus a lot on YouTube content. So it's nice to S to also chat with additional YouTube content creators.

Devin: Yeah, I'm not, I'm not a, I'm probably not the best content creator on YouTube, but I do what I can. Not all that level. Not quite to your level yet.

Scott: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if I have a level, but I'm also doing what I can. So you know, it is what it is. Yeah. Well it's fun. It's fun to create content, these people through it. So that's, that's all that matters. So Devin has one of the largest wedding photography courses in the world and it's called the wedding photography masterclass. And there's a Facebook group which will be linked in the show notes, which we'll talk about later. Hey cam, that's my favorite part. Devin, what is going on in your world? What's new?

Devin: Hey okay. So a lot of things are, I guess, new. And I guess if we're, we kind of put a timetable on new in the past. I don't know. So I guess new in my, so I started recently, I guess in the past since last November. So I guess in a year I started the kind of associate program where they're not referenced as associates to my clients. They're kind of our family. But I started that and there's a lot of growing pains I had to do with that. But now it's kind of becoming a well oiled machine. It's still a lot of growing pains. And then when it comes to new, new I

Devin: In April, so I guess it's, I mean it's six, I guess we fostered an eight year old and then in June we got a one and two year old as well. And so life got real crazy for us. And so things have been kind of crazy. And then at the same time just kind of trying to grow a brand that kind of helps a lot of people. Man. That's like my biggest, that's my heart. And I know a lot of people say it. You know, but like I tried to give so much to where people go, wow, this guy is actually legit, just trying to help people. And that's, that's my, that's my heart man. And so I love being able to give as much as I can. Like you said, there's something about my course, but like I don't even have it available for purchase right now because I just want to give, give, give. And so like that's just, that's, that's kinda where I am right now.

Scott: Yeah, no, I, I totally feel that, you know, like I've got, I've got courses and I don't promote them that much and I'm constantly constantly pushing out free content, whether it's blog posts, podcast episodes, YouTube videos, and to me that's what it's all about. And if I make some extra income from people who care enough to buy, then great. If not I'm happy to just teach. So. Yeah, man and I love stuff. I love that about you as well. So. Cool. So today we're going to be talking about Instagram now before we start recording, I mentioned to you that I'm really excited about this topic because I feel like a lot of people have Instagram strategies including myself, have we, you know, everybody's got their strategy whether it's working or not, and some people just don't want to share their strategies. Yeah. And so today you're going to be sharing some, some things and I'm really excited to learn from you about what's working for you on Instagram because you are generating leads and clients through it, which is very difficult.

Devin: Yeah. But actually, which is the most important part because like a lot of people would teach so many things that are like how to get followers, how to do all that stuff. But if I'm not generating revenue, then what does it matter? Like this isn't a popularity contest. Right. I know you've probably heard this said plenty of times, but like I try my heart is to be as practical and making it happen, but like profitability over popularity, like I don't give a rip about like who follows me if they ain't paying me, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So like I do, I do hope like there, there are photographers that follow me for inspiration and that hopefully follow me for education. But like when it comes to like wedding clients, I want to engage in follow in order to build and generate revenue because ultimately my bills gotta get paid and likes don't pay him.

Scott: So one thing you just mentioned, cause I run into the same situation as you as a photographer who, who has clients but also

Devin: Teaches photographers. First things first, and this was not a question I had planned, but I'm going to ask this. Perfect. Do you separate your Instagram accounts between client content and photographer content? And if not, how do you separate it on the one channel? On the one profile? Yeah. Great. Great, great question. So I don't, I don't use Instagram as much of a, I use it more of a vehicle rather than a destination for, for wedding wedding photographers. Like I want to push them where I can give them the most about amount of value, which comes from back and forth interaction. And so that's not necessarily on Instagram because it's fairly one-sided now. They can ask questions, they can do all that stuff, but I can really dive into them on something like my Facebook group. And so that's where I want to push them.

Devin: And so there'll be a lot of photographers that follow me for inspiration for things like that. But I always try to push them back to my Facebook group because I think that's where a lot more authentic relationships can be made with educational clients because I can really are educational like photographers or that type of brand because then I can really dive in, hone in on them, ask in a group context a lot of things. And so then it becomes relational and it becomes communal. And so that community atmosphere or that community feeling is what really builds and yields trust, which then ultimately if you're trying to sell builds trust, which then leads to ah, two revenue and leads to buyers because people don't like be, they got to like trust and know you. And I think that can happen on Instagram, but I think that community is really fostered within something like a Facebook group.

Devin: But then when it comes to my clients as far as wedding photography, clients like brides and things like that, aye. Aye. Aye. Here's the thing, man. And I say this all the time, nobody cares, right? And nobody cares about what you post. Like nobody cares about the pretty picture. The only people in this world, they care about. The pretty pictures that I post are me and my mom. My wife didn't even here. Look, listen, it's the weirdest thing. It's like, this is the strangest thing. My mom has somebody else's wedding photo as the background of her iPhone and I'm like, mom, that's not even me like that. Like, why do you have that photo? It's Jesus. I love this picture baby. And I'm like, well, and so like I'll show, I'll show an amazing picture in like France or whatever to my wife. And she's like, Oh, that's cool.

Devin: You know? And I'm like, Hey, what's the reason? This is cool, this is awesome. It's so like, I don't even like it as much as I do. And so in the same way, like the people that follow us don't follow us like specifically or strictly for our work. They follow us for the way that we make them feel. Right? Maya Angelo has an amazing quote and it says, people will forget what you say. People will forget what you do, but they'll never forget how you make them feel. And I think Instagram is an amazing Avenue to be able to to be able to bring that together and to make people feel something. And so people will follow you, not for, not, not specifically for your work, but for how your work and for how you make them feel then. So then I translate that into the DMS and things like that. So I am heavily sliding into the DMS of people and heavily doing a lot of those things to be able to generate those emotional contact points, which we can talk about in a little bit. But that's how I separate them. To answer your initial question.

Scott: So how much time are you spending on Instagram? Because, cause I, you know, like there's, you've got, you've got a an engaged Facebook group, you've got other, you know, you got emails going on, you've got Instagram, there's so many different places, but how much time specifically will you, are you at your age? Are you opening Screentime I'm exactly, that's exactly right. So you know, like you're going to like lie about it. I'm going to tell you exactly, you know, like I probably spend maybe 30 minutes at most every I, I'd have to open screen time too, but at most, maybe 30 minutes a day I've never spent more than 30 minutes on Instagram even, you know, in DMS and comments and stuff like that.

Devin: Okay. So now I'm really curious for you to open your Screentime because I think it adds up over time. Like I think it adds up more than you think. And so anybody listening, I would suggest you open up your screen time and then go over to, you could go over to like [inaudible] last week or whatever, but then click on day and it'll give you your in it. If you click on Instagram or you can just click on Instagram specifically and it will give you your day average. And so my daily average on Instagram, and so I'll be honest with this, straight up is an hour and three minutes daily. Wow. Now I do. I do bet you that a lot of people listening spinned around that anyways, they, and they don't make the money that I make on it. So we'll talk about that. But Scott, what do you got? Three minutes. 90 minute. Okay. Okay. Hold on. You had like today or yesterday, what do you have for like last week? So if you go to last week and then you go, then you click on Instagram from last week.

Scott: Let's see, let's do, let's do the week and then Instagram. Okay. So seven minutes is a, is, is the daily average for less credible.

Devin: That's incredible. Okay. So now I have a fairly my, now I would venture to say that the average person, I would say the average person spends a lot more than seven minutes on Instagram probably. And so I'm impressed by you for only spending seven minutes. [inaudible]

Scott: Okay. Now I will try to restrain myself.

Devin: Now I will say that like my average a while ago when I was really heavily establishing this foundation was probably around an hour and a half to two hours a day on Instagram. But like I would spin that anyways a lot of times because it was me and my wife, like we didn't have kids yet and so I wasn't super distracted. I was able to do doing this. Now some people would have kids, but I do also think that there's times where you could do this, like, like for me, like, Oh, I'll do this when I'm going to the bathroom or when I'm like, just wake it up or something like that. Or like there's so many opportunities for me to do this in my strategy when I talk about it a little bit. So a lot of times I will mindlessly like photos or I'm, but I'm always intentionally engaging.

Devin: I'm never just scrolling. And so I do this a one, one big thing I say is I say you have to streamline authentic engagement. And so people were going to go, well, what the heck do you mean by streamlining authentic engagement? Does that make it not authentic? And so what I'd do is I go to, I use keyboard shortcuts. So if you have an iPhone, I can tell you how to do this. If you don't, I have no idea how to tell you how to do this. So, but you would go to settings, general keyboard, text replacement. And so I have all types of things like whenever somebody gets engaged, I will go in and I will write this every single time I will go in and I will say I'll type in the words dream wedding and then, and then I'll press space in this whole paragraph populates that says, Oh my gosh, so excited.

Devin: Swooning over that ring. Let me, let me actually tell you exactly what it says. I don't, I don't, and that's very smart. It's kind of like a Gmails, a canned replies feature. Exactly. You're basically creating for, for engaging in just on Instagram. It's very smart strategy. Yeah. Just exactly. And so what I'm, but I don't have to type it out every single time. Yeah. Which saves me so much time. It saves me another hour on Instagram because like I'll tell you one thing that's been really cool. I've done this so much that on a Saturday or Sunday right around now in this season, every time I open Instagram on a Saturday or Sunday, the very first photo that pops up is an engaged couple that literally just got proposed to because Instagram, because I've engaged so much with it, Instagram goes, okay, this is the content you want to see.

Devin: We're going to keep pushing it to you. And I'm like, thanks algorithm. So many people don't. Many people like complain about the algorithm who literally is bringing me clients because I've engaged so much on a specific type of post, people getting engaged. I've typed in that keyboard shortcut, which is authentic. It's not like red snap like you know, like it's not one of those and it's high value. So what I say is it says us so excited. Swimming over that rain. Congrats. Enjoy planning or dream wedding. If you ever have any questions or need anything, don't hesitate to let us know. We are so excited for you with a bunch of emojis. Heart, iHeart eyes, ring fires, works, champagne, confetti, confetti, heart eyes, you know like it has those emojis in it. Yeah, but it seems super authentic and they always go, Oh my gosh, thank you so much.

Devin: And then what I'll do right here, Scott. So I go straight from here. I literally go straight into the DMS and then I T I S I send one another one that is 100% value. I go, Hey, I just wanted to send them more personal. Congrats here you go. Here it is a guide. And so for some of your listeners out there, you could create a sample timeline, you can create an engagement session guide on what to like, what to wear during an engagement session, right. I live those things you could create. And then I say, here you can have this. This is a gift from me just to say congrats. And then I say this, I say, full disclosure, if you get this guide, it will sign you up for, you'll get one email over the one email per week over the next two to three months and it's going to have like tips for helping you to plan your dream wedding from the photographic standpoint.

Devin: It's going to have getting ready tips, family photo tips, engagement session tips, engagement session, what's where, all types of tips. And then I say, you can unsubscribe at any time. You don't have to hire me. But I know a lot of people find a lot of value in this and I hope you can as well. And so then they're like, Oh my gosh, that's amazing. And they all sign up for it. And then what happens over the next two to three months? I'm building trust with them. I'm building grand awareness with them and I'm building this this, this feeling of reciprocity with them. And so then what they want to do immediately is they're not going to, nobody else has done this. No other photographer has done this. So I'm going to be the roots out. I'm going to be the one that they go, Oh my gosh, like why wouldn't I hire them?

Devin: I've seen a bunch of their work already. I don't know. I like their work and they've given me so much value already. And so that's been really huge for me. And then I have so many other keyboard shortcuts. Like I'll tell you another story, Scott. When I I went saw this bride and you know, like she, she didn't really follow me. And we could talk about how to get the clients and how to find brides because I follow probably about 6,000 of my ideal clients and I'll tell you exactly how I do that. Just a second. But like I, this girl didn't even follow me or anything like that, but I saw, so I live near Charleston, South Carolina, which is an amazing location. I loved Charleston. Oh, so gorgeous in, and they have this one venue that I love and I'd never shot at before.

Devin: It's right on King street, like the main street. It's called the William Aiken house. And I went into the location, sir. Oh, no, no. I followed this girl and she was just like, just got married or just got our venue. So excited to get married here. I typed in my keyboard shortcut for venues that was like, love that venue. Your wedding is going to be an absolute dream. You're going to be the most gorgeous bride. And like now the town now, the countdown route, now the countdown begins and things start to get really start to get really excited. That night I posted that the girl followed me, sent me an inquiry, met with her the next day, booked her all because of me commenting on her photo and stuff like that. And so like being able to go out and also, here's the thing, here's another thing Scott.

Devin: People are like, who do, I'm a guy and that's just kind of creepy. I'm a guy too. Okay? Like I'm a guy and I've been doing this and it generates leads and has generated revenue and people feel valued. They don't feel creeped out by it because we live in such a narcissistic culture that like when people post on Instagram, they post in order to get affirmation. Like there's studies that are shown that when somebody gets affirmation on their, their photos, dopamine flies to their brain. So like this reward circuitry place associated with this feeling of, of joy and reward every time somebody gets likes on their photos, that's automatically associated to my brand. And so now I'm building that and building that and building that. So then, you know, they say it takes somebody an average of seven times to remember your brand. But if I'm constantly over and over and over affirming them and every time they see a anchor in Vail, like their photo, a shot of dopamine goes through their brain. Now I'm not trying to like take advantage or leveraging, but social media is doing that anyways. I'm just using that for my brand now. And so like I'm, I'm, I'm creating this, this positive reinforcement and, and association with my brand that ultimately leads to bookings.

Scott: You know, I love the fact that not only did you get back in this net particular story, not only did you get that client, but you got to photograph the wedding at a venue that you were dying a photograph. At. So I just, I just Googled the picture of the, of the building the property. Oh, it does look amazing. So yeah, it's pretty cool. And one of my

Devin: Photos from it is like chandelier is everywhere from that was so like it was a really nice wedding that I got because I

Scott: Commented on a photo. Nice. Yeah, that's great. So, so how do you find your ideal clients? Is it just searching for specific hashtags, a searching for specific locations? We're, is it like following what other places are following, which is I know a common thing as well.

Devin: Good question. So so Scott, quick question, do you know the maximum amount of people that you can follow on Instagram?

Scott: I know it's somewhere up in the thousands, but I'm not sure what the total number is.

Devin: Cool. So 7,500 people, so 7,500 people is the maximum it will allow you to. And I, if you look at my Instagram right now, let me see how many people I follow cause I'm not quite sure. I think I follow 7,494 people, 95. And so because like what I do is I will actually go and things like, so hashtags not so much. I will actually go to location services because I know where my target audience goes. So my target audience goes to bank of America stadium to watch the Panthers play my target IOT and goes to inc and Ivy, which is a bar uptown Charlotte. Because my target audience is 26 to 35 professionals that are that like to go out, enjoy time with their friends, things like that and are most likely paying for the wedding. Most like 80% of my clients are all like doctors, lawyers, dentists, things like that because that's where I go and I understand where those people go and hang out and do things socially.

Devin: They don't go to, like if I lived in green Greensboro where, where I went to college, they don't go to like Greene street club, which is like a, like a, okay. So like they don't go there. They go to nicer, higher end bars, enjoy times with their friends. And so I'll actually go to those locations. So I'll go to the search bar type in that and I'll go to that location and I'll look at all, I mean like the thing about Instagram is it allows you to be extremely picky with who you want to follow. I will follow my exact tar. I know exactly what they look like. I know what they were, know what they were kind of purses they carry. I know all of those things. And so I can take a look at some somebody's sister [inaudible] and know that that's my target audience and we would all be lying if we say we couldn't do that either. Like I think most people know

Scott: Who they want to photograph. Yeah. You want, if you want to start doing a an hour a day on Instagram, that's like the best way that you can spend an entire week of doing an hour a day is, is, is to do the research to find your, your ideal clients. You know, the way that I do it is, or one of the ways that I do it I should say, is I actually start looking at my clients cause I follow all my clients on Instagram and then see who they're following and see who has a family, see who, who who's posting photos of their, of their newborns and stuff like that. And, and I will start following them. And that way I can track who's, who's ready for a family session and who's ready for whose, whose child is turning one and ready for a kicks mess session and so on. So

Devin: Yeah, and you can, and you can easily like slide into those DMS and go, Oh my gosh, I saw that if you want to, but you can be like, I just saw, you know, like now I don't think this is kind of creepy. I don't know. You could, I don't know, but you should be like, I'm like, Oh, what a cute baby. I have all my website, like five ways to sleep train or something like that at sleep train and newborn or things like that. Which people can find a lot of value in and ultimately that's what we want to give them is a ton of value. And so yeah, that's what I do. And like exactly that. I will actually, so a lot of people will go, okay, well how do you find people, like if they're private, you know, like private accounts.

Devin: And so what I'll do is, you know, like some of those, some of those people that come up in my location services, they're either in a photo with their boyfriend and I'm like definitely them. Or they're in a photo with like five of their other friends and I know what. And so I will go in and I'll look at their tags and I'll follow all five of their other friends. And then people say, well, do you follow them if they're private accounts? And my answer is 100% yes. Because now that's even better because if they're not private accounts and then my follow gets lost in their likes, you know, as they scroll through. But if they're a private account, they have to go through, they have to go to my Instagram page. They have to approve me and then, and so then they're more likely to follow me back and remember me rather than somebody who wasn't approved account,

Scott: That's for sure. And if they see that you're following their friends, that even increases the chances that they will follow you back. Cause then they're going to say, Oh, well I'm, I'm dating somebody. What if, what if I get engaged? Now I should, I should know this person, you know? And if they follow me

Devin: Back already, then there's social proof, you know, like there's social proof that I am a trustable account.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. So how about how on average, how many leads do you get on Instagram each month? Like who all partners?

Devin: Gosh, good question, man. You know, I love ballparks, but I also all about real numbers, real numbers. So let me just, let me pull it up right now and tell you, that's a great question. Okay. So in the last, let's see, lead sources leads by month. Instagram, so in, okay. Ooh, yeah, this is really interesting. Okay. So 104 teen total so far. And it's November. I got, let's see, January is a big month. I got 23, February 14, March 15, April, that one's a little bit lower. Six leads may seven and then so 11. So I guess I would average, Oh, and then October 12 and then these next couple months are already like spiking up. And so I would say like I average at least 10

Scott: Around us. What I was thinking per month. Yeah. Nice. That's, that's, that's pretty good for just Instagram, which is, I have to say Instagram, while it's the most photo centric potential social media network for potential leads, it's, it's the hardest. Yeah, it is the hardest. And so that's, that's good. 10 10 on average is pretty impressive.

Devin: I'll get a lead from Instagram.

Scott: And, and, and so you're, you're using the strategy of sending them to your, to your wedding guides and, and stuff like that. So while you're in your analytics about on average, how many of those leads do you get to convert to, to clients?

Devin: No, 26%. So one out of every four turned into clients, which is great. And we're also in a higher end, like my associates start at 35, which means nobody books 35, they all book between like the average for my associates are around 4,800, 5,000 and the average for me as a little bit over 7,000, so we're still on the higher end. So if I were a little bit lower than we would convert at a much higher rate, but we're still a little bit too expensive for a lot of people.

Scott: Nice. Yeah. And you know, that's obviously going to you know, the potential people who are obviously not your clients will obviously know, hire you. So, you know, that's exactly right, which is perfectly fine. You don't want, you don't want the people who, who to, to not necessarily waste your time, but you know, you want to be able to focus on the people who are more likely to hire you anyway.

Devin: 100%. And I'm also sorry. And I also like don't want to just, just because I have an associate does that mean that I want to give them every bride? Like I want them to be happy with the clients that they get as well. Not just give them those people just so I can make more money.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and there's people that, that as an, I don't have any associate photographers in my photography business, but you know, there's from, from the outside in, there's probably clients that you get that you won't connect as well with that one of your associate photographers might connect better. Yeah, for sure. So you're gonna wanna pass along and vice versa depending on each person. So, so profiles, right. This is a, this is a topic where I feel like there's so many directions you can go. I wonder if you have a strategy for color scheme for your profile or texts on photos or never texts on photos or a specific posting schedule that you go by. Do you have a strategy for basically how your profile functions?

Devin: Man, I am. I am so glad you asked me this question. I really am. I love this because what I think is the way that I do Instagram makes this completely irrelevant, like just so irrelevant. It's not even funny man. Like I hear so many times people are like, Oh, you know, like posting of yourself so people can get to know you and things like that. And I'm like, that's awesome. And then they'll say, Oh, post a pretty profile so your scheme looks great. And I'm like, that's awesome. The only one scheme that I've ever stayed with is like, I have one row of black and whites. The other two are colors and like that's it. Let me tell you, I have posted. Okay, you ready? I posted four days ago and then before that I, this is this is November 12th. I hope it's okay that I say the date.

Devin: Yup. I posted four days ago, which was November 8th last time I posted before that, October 21st last time I posted before that October 15th last time, October 5th I may be maybe post once a week or once every two weeks. And so like this strategy and then like, but the crazy thing is all of my posts still get extremely high engagement except the last one because I used a copyright song and so Instagram didn't allow it to go fart. Yeah, but the posts that that engagement is going to be because you're engaging, excited, anything. Oh my gosh, exactly. Like that's the thing. It makes, it makes the algorithm or it makes how much you post. Completely irrelevant. I post once a week maybe and I still get super high engagement and I still get an inquiry every three days because it doesn't matter. Like, like I said, people don't come to my feed because of my work.

Devin: They come because how I make them feel and if I can make, what I do is I go to them to make them feel a certain way. I don't need them to come to me, I'll just go to them. And that worked a significantly better than me trying to worry too much about my, my Instagram profile and it leading, yielding nothing rather than I go to them and doing and do the work. And that's just most important I think. And are you doing any stories at all? Yeah, I will occasionally do stories. I do think stories. I think stories are far more actually engagement on stories as going down right now just because Instagram in general, but like, because Instagram and, or because Facebook and so I think though, but, but, but if you, if you were to take a poll and you were to ask who immediately when they opened their Instagram, it goes to the story first or it goes to this feet first.

Devin: And I would say 80% right now, let's say it goes to the stories first. And so stories are important. I have not put as much as I used to just because like my strategy is elsewhere. But what I do is I go to stories and I will immediately go and engage on their stories. They people post stories because the same reason why they post photos is they want to be engaged with in some way, shape or form. They want, they want some sort of affirmation for what they just like I saw a study and it was like I'll skip some of the stats, but it was like at least 7%, right? So I know that sounds low, but it was like 16% will post like seven to eight or we'll take seven to 10 selfies before they post the one that they like.

Devin: But then it was like 7% of women well we'll take 11 to 15 selfies before they find the one that they want to post. And so like seven to 8% is plenty of women in the world. It'd be my client. And so like I'm going to go and I'm going to go to like a lot of those people post because they, they find that perfect selfie whatever they want because they want affirmation and I'm gonna give them that in the DMS as well. Even if that's just like cute dog, whatever. Because then it's a lot more personal in the stories and in the DMS and so like, yes, I'll post the stories. Sometimes I'll post my work in the stories, but I do tend to be a lot more personal in the stories. We'll talk about our foster children and we'll talk about me either like speaking at an event or as being on vacation or things like that because people do associate with personal brands. I think it's that it's people are seven times more likely to buy from a personal brand or buy when I think it was like when they employees of a company post rather than when the company posts. And so they brought it from a more personal brand rather than just large brands. And so it just converts a lot better when you can be more personal. But I think you can also just be personal by sliding into the DMS and bringing that value as well.

Scott: You know, that, that's one of the reasons why Imagely started this podcast in the first place was to put a, an and the reason why we're doing it video is to put face faces. And mainly it's me doing it at imagery but, but faces to to the company cause otherwise, you know, sure we have a team page, but otherwise you're just looking at a company that you don't know who's who. So now when somebody thinks about imageries or they're thinking about my, my ugly mug, talking to them, you know, with him. But it's more mindset I guess, but it's more personal. Yeah. so two other two to basically two final questions I have about, about strategy. One is do you have a hashtag strategy when you do posts, which by the way, I do about once or twice at most a week as well. But hashtags, do you have a strategy to optimize for hashtags or is it just go with the flow?

Devin: Yeah. So I think like there's a misconception behind hashtags is that like, Oh, because it allows you to do 30, then do 30, quite, I haven't heard statistics that if you do 30 then you're more likely to be like seen as like a bot account that posts just 30. And so I would suggest, I think I say 25 to 27 hashtags in your comments in three in the caption. So that's like kinda how I tend to do it. Now you also want to be very kind of have like a, I have a certain, I can't remember the word, but like associate you amount of likes you get with a photo with the hashtags that you use. So like don't use hashtag wedding cause that millions of posts per day on it use something that's more niche or more specialized. If you get like, it's like if you get a hundred a hundred likes per photo, then use hashtags that are that are around 100,000 posts because then you're more likely to be on that top nine or whatever to being found.

Devin: And so what I'll do is I'll do nine in that hundred thousand posts and then I'll do nine in like the, the 200, like the 300,000 to 500,000. And then I'll do another nine in those like heavy hitter ones that, you know, get a little bit over that in the post. And that's like how I've researched my hashtags and scripted out my hashtags. I also use keyboard shortcuts for hashtags. If you are copying and pasting hashtags, then you are wasting a lot of time. I will put Charlotte wedding crest space and all my heart, my hashtags for Charlotte come up.

Scott: So, so I used to do that. But I was introduced to an app that I fell in love with. Cool. And it helps me optimize what hashtags are actually doing stuff. It's called smart hash. Okay. So and I can, I'll send you a link to it. I'll put it in the show notes as well. Boston, your link to it. It's iOS, Android and web. So you can even do it if you're doing something on the web that it lets you split test your hashtags and also, and also lets you get, she gives you a heat map of what is actually working getting you engagement so that way you know, okay, well this one's not working. I should stop using it. And also let you research hashtags that might be related to a search turn that you have.

Scott: That's awesome. I just looked it up. Yeah. So it's a, it's pretty sweet actually. If you watch the video that's on the homepage of it, it's a review that I have. I did that. I did okay on YouTube. They just add it to their home page was pretty cool. So, so smart hash is what I use, but I did use to use your strategy of doing the, the, the text shortcut, the keyboard shortcut. So, so my, my final question is I noticed that you have one of those link in bio links, like the link tree or whatever service that you're using. And there's tons of those out there. So my question to you is why aren't you just linking to your website itself and adding the same content that's on the link tree link to your website?

Devin: Basically like one part of it is cause I was just lazy so I keep it man, I keep it real bro. Like I will keep it 100. I keep it so real and so I totally could do that and then I could pick so and I can do all that stuff. But like one of the hard parts about pixeling is like I don't know exactly where that comes from. And so if you look on that link tree, it goes to different parts of my website, which is great. People can click on the different things, which I could still do on my website as well. But I just did that just because it's been easier and I just didn't want to have to redo something like that. I totally could. I just did. Hmm.

Scott: Okay. All right. Well, I think I think, yeah,

Devin: I also don't, I also, sorry, I was going to say, I also haven't like seen a lot of data from that that shows a lot of people click. That made it like worth it for me to go, I need to do this right away. I could even, because one is better than none, but I just, I just hadn't done it.

Scott: Cool. I think what I might do for episode 93 for the next episode of this podcast is continue on on the Instagram topic and even maybe show people how to make a Lincoln bio page on their own site. I think that might be an interesting, I think for people to see. That would be cool. And, and maybe even do a quick demo demonstration of a apps and stuff that I use for, for Instagram. Duh. That way I can connect it to this episode as well. So that can be pretty cool. You should. So anything that you want to share that you would like the listeners and viewers of the, of this episode to check out that you're doing or any final advice you want to share

Devin: About Instagram strategy? Yeah, I guess the final advice I would, I would say is just do it like you're on Instagram anyways. So now make it intentional and do something about it and start to seek out like even if it's just going in and following, like I'll go in, I'll follow and then I'll like, like the first seven photos of that person to try and get their attention. Even if you do something like that, like even if you do that to a couple of people, you'll start to notice that you'll start to, you'll start to get more people interested in you because now what I'm doing is generating a lot of warm leads because they'll come to me, are ready, preface, we already have a relationship. They're already ready to buy from me rather than somebody that's just kind of searching for a photographer. There's a relationship that's been built, so do the work because in the long run it will work.

Devin: And I guess if there's something that I guess anything I'm doing or something like that, the only thing I would say is also just you could join me in my Facebook group. I love the Facebook group because I just want to give a ton of value in there. I will answer just about every single question that gets answered, if I can answer it. And a, and I just, I just love being able to help people and so you can find that anchored or you could just search in the anchored education group on Facebook.

Scott: Awesome. I'll also link to it in the show notes. So if you go to the show notes page, you'll be able to access it and, and everywhere that you'll be able to find. Devin. so thank you so much for joining the show today. I, this is a fantastic topic. I think my two biggest takeaways that I'm going to get started on immediately are one, follow more, more target clients and to get those keyboard shortcuts in there for act for comment. I think that is, I wish I've been doing that all along and now I'm like going to, you know, I want to hit myself for not doing it, but I can get it done. Hey you and I hope everybody else who's listening gets that done. But there's been a ton of value here, so thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Scott: Yeah, no problem. And also if you want to, I have a bunch of keyboard shortcut, like things like that. In my group. I have a unit section with like videos on it and stuff like that because I have for dresses and people on Valentine's day or anniversaries, all of that stuff. Super easy. Awesome. Yeah, that's great. So you can find the show notes where to find Devin, like his Facebook group. You can check out his weddings, his podcast. I've all, these will be linked in our show notes at 92 and don't forget to subscribe to the show on Apple podcast, Spotify, Pandora, Google play, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time.

clean no 40:04 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 91 – What Your Photography Business Needs Thu, 14 Nov 2019 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 91 In today's episode, we are going to share three things your photography business needs, and an introduction to the new blog series.

Joke of the day:

When a friend retired from a lifetime as a photographer, he moved to an Old Focus Home.

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clean no 7:57 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 90 – Automated Print Lab Fulfillment in WordPress Thu, 31 Oct 2019 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 90 As you may know, NextGEN Gallery is already the most popular gallery plugin for WordPress with a million active users. For a very long time, NextGEN Gallery has been capable of doing so much related to galleries. In fact, it’s more than just a gallery plugin. It’s a gallery management plugin. For the past few years we have been selling two premium extensions for NextGEN Gallery; NextGEN Plus and NextGEN Pro. They’re extremely similar with the only differences being ecommerce, digital downloads and proofing being available in NextGEN Pro. This version also comes with our powerful Lightroom plugin for painless publishing from the software so many professional photographers utilize in their workflows.

Now, for the first time ever in WordPress, professional photographers can have their prints automatically fulfilled and delivered to their customers. The first lab we have integrated with is WHCC (White House Custom Colour) with others on the way. What makes this so special is the way NextGEN Gallery and NextGEN Pro handle print sales and the lab that’s printing and delivering them.

By uploading a full-size image inside of NextGEN Gallery, the plugin will resize the upload for continued site speed optimization. But it will sell the print based on the original, backed up and secured image file.

This means you can keep your site loading fast, and even watermark your images. But when you sell a print, you’re selling based on the best quality you have available when originally uploaded.

So now with NextGEN Pro, you can sell prints with automated print fulfillment from the leading professional print lab used by photographers. Prints are sent directly to customers with no extra work.

This amazing new service is commission-free. It’s beautiful to watch the orders come in, and the lab handles the work of printing and delivering in a white-labeled package with the photographer’s information on it.

Along with automated print fulfillment comes automated tax calculations. We have integrated NextGEN Pro with the leading tax service, TaxJar. Imagely is even covering the fees of using the service. All you need to do is keep your license active. If your NextGEN Pro license expires, you can continue using the plugin but you lose access to automated lab fulfillment, automated tax calculations, and future plugin updates.

But these two amazing new services are on top of dozens of other incredible features inside of NextGEN Pro, including mosaic and masonry galleries, a full-screen Pro Lightbox, social sharing, image protection and much more.

Now, you can provide proofing galleries and sell prints and digital downloads, with automated print fulfillment. You can have prints sent directly to customers from professional print labs with no extra work.

To learn more about NextGEN Pro and lab integration please click here.

clean no 4:06 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 89 – Too Much WordPress Stuff? Thu, 17 Oct 2019 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 89 In today's episode, we are going to start a conversation about adding plugins to your site. We will discuss security, backups, server strain, and even a term that gets thrown around a ton, bloat.

Joke of the day:

We all have a photographic memory. Just some of us are lacking the film.

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Something just came up in a Facebook group, and I realized I should have recorded a podcast episode about it long ago. So that's what I am doing right now. The topic is, "adding too much stuff to WordPress."

  • Is it good?
  • Is it bad?
  • What are the risks?
  • Why do it?

So in today's episode, I'm going to discuss this with you and share some thoughts and my comments on those thoughts, from others.

First, we want to know. Do you care about adding "stuff" to your WordPress site? Comment with your thoughts. What are your thoughts on adding plugins that could remove other services/subscriptions you have? Do you keep your WordPress site lean and clean, or do you add things that you feel you need or want in place of more expensive items?

For example, in the topic of the Facebook group, a person was looking to save money from their email marketing software. Something I've been researching for a very long time. I pointed them in the direction of a specific plugin, called Mailster, and someone else commented about not wanting to add more "stuff" to their WordPress site.

In this example, MailChimp or Mailerlite might cost someone $50 a month whereas Mailster would cost $50, once, and you can use it forever.

First, before I dive into what others say, and then my added thoughts, I want to point out that I'm personally not a fan of buying or using any products sold on ThemeForest or CodeCanyon due to various reasons. Typically the code quality isn't up to where it should be with products sold there. However, in some cases, there are exceptions. For example, the popular theme, X Theme, sold on ThemeForest is well made, but even it has its problems. Mailster is another exception. While it didn't do what I needed, which I'll explain later, it is a well-made product.

The first comment I received stated that:

"Adding more stuff adds potential security issues and bloat for server backup."

I want to break that down now — first, security issues. Sure, adding a plugin can create a security issue, if the plugin has vulnerabilities. But so can your theme, and so can your host. I know that might sound discouraging, but that's part of the risk that comes with using an open-source product like WordPress. There are more chances you're okay and safe and secure than you are vulnerable. But here is some advice to make sure you're protected no matter what.

  1. Only use themes and plugins from reputable companies. Companies with a proven track record, with testimonials coming out their ears, with discussion on social media, with a lot of customers. Companies who engage with their community in public places. Like in a podcast, or on a forum, or Facebook groups, or elsewhere on social media.
  2. Use a host that has your back by offering backups and doing security hardening and scanning regularly.
  3. When choosing from free plugins, use ones that are in use on a lot of sites. 100 isn't a lot. 1,000 isn't a lot. 100,000 is a lot, and 1,000,000 is like gold. Think about it. If a plugin was vulnerable, then there are higher chances of 100 people, or 1,000 people having security issues. But the chances of a security issue for 100,000 or 1,000,000 people is slim. Look, it can happen. It happened with our free plugin, NextGEN Gallery. But we have a team of developers to fix things like that fast. So we do. When there is a security issue brought to our attention, it's fixed within a day typically. Sometimes within an hour and then it's pushed out to users.
  4. Use a security plugin like Wordfence or Sucuri which can monitor and scan your site for vulnerabilities, malware, and themes and plugins which are abandoned, outdated, and so on.

Okay, let's move onto the bloat topic. Bloat is a word that gets thrown around a lot. Especially from WordPress developers. Then it's seen by users and used. But the funny thing is typically each individual has their definition or idea of what bloat is. In the case of this comment in the Facebook group, it appears as though the comment was referring to the size of his site backups. So I want to address that now.

  1. Hopefully, your host is doing your backups and securing them off-site somewhere, like in Amazon or Google's cloud. Having backups done on the server-side means less strain your site. The size of your website shouldn't matter at this point.
  2. For people who need a plugin for backups, I used to recommend BackupBuddy many years ago. But the size of size played a massive role in failures for BackupBuddy. I then discovered WP Time Capsule, which acts like Apple's Time Machine. It's an incremental backup system which will send one of many cloud options including Google Drive. What this means is the initial backup would take a while. But then every day it will only backup what's changed. New comments in the DB, new images uploaded, a theme change, etc. So the amount of data being backed up always small. You can even set the schedule to backup when your site has the least amount of traffic. 

I asked the members of The WordPress for Photographers group on Facebook about their thoughts on this. So now I want to move on to some of those comments.

The first comment shared a concern about plugin incompatibility and security. I won't touch on the security aspect since I just did earlier. But the plugin incompatibility thing can be a real hassle. I agree. But my answer to that would be similar to the security one. Only use plugins that have a track record and are from reputable people and companies. Also, if your host offers a staging site, test the plugin with your website first before putting it on your live site. You typically won't have compatibility issues unless one plugin does something very similar to another. For example, having to Google Analytics plugins can be a problem. Having two Mailchimp plugins can be a problem if one isn't coded correctly. I've seen that happen numerous times.

The following comment was one about bloat and adding a plugin because there's a plugin for it. Like Apple's tagline, there's an app for that; the same can be said for WordPress. If you can think it, there's likely a plugin for it. When I asked this member for her take on the word bloat, she said:

"Anything that should just be written into the original WP code in the first place. A plugin that has a lot of features when only one is needed because all of that code is sitting on the server and not being used. Let's use NextGEN Gallery as an example: It's super bloated for someone who just wants to add media to a daily blog post, but it's not so bloated for someone who wants to run a large image service on their web site, Also, in general, the more plugins you have on a site, the more back doors you have to keep an eye on."

She has an interesting take on the word bloat. I mentioned earlier, Bloated is something that gets thrown around by a lot of people, but each person has their take on what bloated really is. In her case, she's saying that anything that isn't part of WordPress itself, pre-plugins, is bloat. For that, I'll have to strongly disagree as WordPress is specifically designed to add plugins for additional features. However, she then talked about how NextGEN Gallery is bloat for someone who needs a simple image on a post, but not for someone who needs more of an image management solution. For that, I'll have to agree. However, I still wouldn't call that bloat. I'd call that more of a practical thing. Even at Imagely, we don't recommend our own product for people who need one gallery forever or for people who only add individual images to posts. We recommend our plugin for people who work with a lot of images regularly and need to organize, manage, display, proof, and sell those all the time. Does it make NextGEN Gallery bloated? No. It makes it a product that is for specific use cases. If you want a simple gallery with minimal options, use the block editor. Its gallery block is pretty awesome. But if you want something more, with deep control over everything, NextGEN Gallery your best option.

The last comment I want to share is one from someone in the photo industry, which also creates and manages sites for photographers. He says.

"WordPress is already a bloated beast, adding in database heavy plugins is a really bad idea. 

I only recommend using plugins that are necessary for the site to function and meet its objectives.

Trying to use it as a MailChimp replacement is not good in my humble opinion. In addition to the bloat, you also have to worry about deliverability and getting your server IP address blacklisted with ISPs.

I am a firm believer in offloading as much as possible as long as it makes sense. I wouldn't necessarily offload a contact form or a newsletter signup form, those in general are pretty lightweight. But email marketing, live chat and support, and even certain e-commerce I would recommend using third party services and embedding. 

A company that is in the business of running a SaaS is "almost" always going to do a better job than a developer writing and selling a WP plugin.

With that said, you could create a clean WordPress install on a separate server with a different IP address and a different domain name (not a subdomain) and give it a shot. If you can make it work it may save a few dollars per month over third party services, BUT you may spend that and more just trying to manage it all yourself."

He only recommends using plugins that are necessary for the site to function and meet its objectives. I agree that should be the limit of plugins. But I think the key to that statement was meeting its objectives. If your objective is to offer contracts through your site instead of using and paying HelloSign, then buying a contact form plugin that offers a signature feature could be the perfect solution.

If your goal is to use bring the CRM system in house instead of paying $300 or more a year on a CRM platform, then buying a plugin once could be the perfect solution.

Mailster, while I didn't like some things about it which I'll get to in a moment, is a perfect solution for people wanting to replace MailChimp or other email marketing software. Why? Because it doesn't add bloat. It doesn't put a strain on your server. It doesn't have a risk of IP blocking. Why? Because the developers were smart and thought of that ahead of time. When it sends its campaigns, it spaces them out to not put a strain on the server. It connects to GMAIL, Amazon SES, SendGrid or other SMTP platforms to send the emails. The only reason I have no switched to it from Mailchimp is that:

  1. The drag and drop builder isn't as good as it could be. It's good but not as flexible as Mailchimps.
  2. Segmentation isn't as good as it could be, which makes it hard for multiple autoresponders for one subscriber. I have been using Mailchimp since pre-groups, post-groups and now with tags. I have photography clients but also teach photographers, so my Mailchimp list is heavily segmented for various things. Mailster can't handle my segmentation needs.

With those said, for the average photographer, Mailster is impressive and can do the job needed.

In the case of support, most photographers wouldn't be using a plugin for support unless they brought their CRM in house. But a lot of WordPress companies use a plugin called Awesome Support, which is like a Zendesk or Freshdesk as a plugin. It's quite lightweight and doesn't hog the server down.

For eCommerce, WooCommerce is the most popular eCommerce solution used by stores these days. It's robust, but better designed for physical products than anything else. You also have to add extensions for pretty much everything you want it to do. This is where the term bloat could come in to play. For one eCommerce site using WooCommerce, you might have 10 or more extensions to sell the way you want.

For photographers needing eCommerce, NextGEN Gallery's premium upgrade, NextGEN Pro handles selling photos in a streamlined, easy, extension-less way. One plugin to handle all the eCommerce needs, with no strain on the server.

handles selling photos in a streamlined, easy, extension-less way. One plugin to handle all the eCommerce needs, with no strain on the server.

So getting back to the comment on bloat, I agree that you shouldn't add just anything because you can. I think you have to be smart about it. Be picky about it. But if you make the right choices, and test things first, there is minimal to no risk, and a heck of a lot of savings.

We would love to hear from you. Please join this conversation by commenting with your thoughts on the topic.

clean no 18:25 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 88 – How Fast Is Your Photography Site? Thu, 03 Oct 2019 13:00:36 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 88 Site speed is important for SEO these days. It always has been, but since Google switched to Mobile-First search and rankings, it puts more importance on speed. Fast sites mean fast mobile sites which means happy viewers which means happy Google users which means Google is happy with your site.

Joke of the day:

Photography is a developing hobby.

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There are so many tools for determining the speed of your site. Tools like Pingdom, GTMetrix, YSlow, Google Page Speed and much more.

So how fast is your photography site according to those tools?

Are these tools accurate?

In some ways they're accurate, but really they are not as accurate as you'd want. They're not real-world results. They're cached results from servers optimized for checking site speed for millions of sites. They're not human tested results on real internet service providers.

So here is what you should do instead.

  1. Open any browser, like Chrome, Safari or Firefox.
  2. Go to Incognito or Private mode.
  3. Look for their developer console. You can Google "BrowserName Developer Console" if you need assistance finding it.
  4. Go to the Network tab instead of the developer console
  5. Go to your website.

Here is where the fun starts. Most browsers have an option to Disable Cache in the network tab of their developer consoles. Turn that on so you get a more realistic result without caching in play.

If you refresh your website a half dozen times you will get a more accurate result as well.

There are 3 things you want to pay attention to.

  1. DOM Load
  2. Load
  3. Finish Time

DOM Load is when the site is visible enough to make sense of it. That's part of the 2 Second Test, where a viewer should know exactly what your site is about within 2 seconds. With DOM Load your site looks ok but is not functional yet. It's basically the visibility above the fold.

Load is when the page is practically fully loaded, but not quite all javascript files are there, and maybe not all images depending on your site setup. For example, maybe you have Lazy Loading turned on so first the Lazy Load javascript has to load, then it will slowly load images as you scroll.

Finish Time is the completed load where nothing else has to load afterward. Even if you have Lazy Loading turned on for images, your images would be pre-loaded at this point.

Typically Load is a good number to go by because that's when people will start trying to interact with your site. So under 2 seconds is really good.

What I recommend you do is create a spreadsheet, and every time you refresh your page, note the DOM, Load and Finish times. Then in another column of the spreadsheet average them out. Do this a half dozen times and you will have a really good sense for your site speed.

Referenced Links:

clean no 10:32 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 87 – Finances in Photography Business with Eric Rosenberg Thu, 19 Sep 2019 13:00:17 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 87
Episode 87 - Finances in Photography Business with Eric Rosenberg

Eric Rosenberg is a finance, travel, and technology writer in Ventura, California. He is a former bank manager and corporate finance and accounting professional who left his day job in 2016 to take his online side hustle full-time. He has in-depth experience writing about banking, credit cards, investing, and other financial topics, and is an avid travel hacker. When away from the keyboard, Eric enjoys exploring the world, flying small airplanes, discovering new craft beers, and spending time with his wife and little girls. You can connect with him at Personal Profitability or personally branded site, Eric Rosenberg.

You can tell this joke of the day thing is new because I said the wrong joke on the show. But that is funny so I guess the jokes on me!

Joke of the day:

A friend of mine is always going on about photography jokes. I just can’t shutter up.

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What we discuss:

  • Why bookkeeping is important for your photography business and how to do it
  • When should you record your transactions every month?
  • Why you need to look at your profit and loss (P&L) and balance sheet every month
  • Which show do you like more; Shark Tank or The Profit?
  • Should I register my business at all? If I do, should I use an LLC or something else?

Where to find Eric:

Join Eric's free week long Personal Profitability Bootcamp

Referenced Links:


Transcription was done by, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Scott: Ever since buying a digital camera. I can only think of its positive points. There aren't any negatives. Woke up to episode 87 my name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and I'm joined by my guest, Eric Rosenberg. Eric is a finance and travel and technology writer in Ventura, California. He is a former bank manager, a corporate finance and accounting professional who left his job in 2016 to take his online side hustle full time. He has in-depth experience writing about banking credit cards, investing in other financial topics and is an avid travel hacker, which I'm a kind of into a little bit. Went away from the keyboard. Eric enjoys exploring the world, flying small airplanes, discovering new craft beers, and spending time with his wife and little girls. You can connect with him here and at personal profitability, his or his personal branded sites. Eric Rosenberg. So welcome Eric. Finally to have you on the show.

Eric: I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Scott: Yeah. So for everybody listening, I have been trying to get Eric on for a while. Things happened as you heard in the last couple of episodes with the water damage in my home studio. So but we're now here, and we're now recording, and this is gonna be a good episode. This is going to be a whole topic about finances for photographers in a variety of, of things even deeper than that. So I know it's a topic that not a lot of photographers like thinking about or talking about or even wanting to handle, but if you have a photography business, this is something you have to think about and have to do. So Eric is going to be great at breaking things down, simplifying it and making them more enjoyable than just thinking about finances. So it's going to be good. That's my goal. Yeah. So before we dive in Eric, what is going on with you? What is new? What, what do you have in the pipeline? Things like that.

Eric: This has been a busy travel year for me so far. Actually just got back from my 12th trip of the year as everyone's listening to this. I was just that fin con, that's a big financial blogging and media conference I go to every year and that's actually got what got me started in this online world. So I'm a huge fan of fin con and everything that happens there. I've also been, I've been all around the world. As you mentioned, I'm a big travel hacker, so I go to conferences. I been on some personal fun trips. Actually. I'm still recovering from a conference right now, so my voice sounds a little funky. But yeah, a lot of travel, a lot of good things. You know, I've been keeping my head down, working on my own business. I have a bootcamp I'll tell you guys about later that I'd love to share of that, that I have that came out not too long ago that helps people like you, a hustlers and entrepreneurs learn to level their business.

Eric: So that's what I'm all about really. So I'm actually just this conference I just got back from, I spoke on a topic very related to what we're going to talk about today. I just had a twist for online finance bloggers and podcasters. So same topic, just switching it up for photographers because a lot of what we do, I believe it or not is very similar. You know, it doesn't matter if you're running a little solo photography business or a multimillion dollar online empire or a fortune 500 company, a lot of the basics are, are the same. You know, they might have a few more zeros at those big companies than we do at Solo senators, but the basics are the same. And that's what I used to do for living was, was corporate finance and accounting. So yeah, I'm excited to be here and, and dive in with photography. Maybe I'll pick up a few tips about how to fix my aperture on my camera while we're doing nice.

Scott: So, you know, finances everything starts with keeping track of everything. You're the bookkeeping aspect. So can you talk about the importance of it? And, and really how do you do your bookkeeping what, what's the proper way really to do your bookkeeping and things like that?

Eric: Well that's a great question and a great starting place because you know bookkeeping is really just categorizing. Now I'm going to try to not use finance jargon today and I'm going to use words that like normal people think. So when you hear a term like chart of accounts, that is something I worked on a lot in my corporate accounting time. Chart of accounts is really fancy words for categories. So what we're doing with bookkeeping is we're taking a look at every transaction that has come through our bank account or our credit card. And it's very important you have separate bank accounts for your business than you do personally, even if you run your business as a sole proprietor. So even if you don't register with your state saying, you know, I am Mr photographer or Mrs photographer or MS photographer, we're wherever you fall on the photographer spectrum of, you don't have to register with your state to be considered a business.

Eric: All you have to do to be a business in the eyes of the IRS if you're here in the u s is make money. And so that's, that's really all that matters. Let the IRS thinks. Right. So one thing to keep in mind as we're going through this, there are a lot of benefits for you that will come because you did this later on and no one ever said, I ignored my finances and they just fixed themselves. And that's just, that's not the way the world works. So bookkeeping is the first step. And just knowing where you're at, it's just like if you use something like or personal capital or there's a whole bunch of different personal finance apps that can help you track all your bank accounts and credit cards and loans in one place, and you should do the exact same thing for your business.

Eric: So doing that, that's what we call accounting software bookkeeping software. The one I use is called QuickBooks. That's the biggest out there. It's from the company called intuit. They actually also make TurboTax and So there, they're the big one in the industry, but they're definitely not the only one among solo business owners. Freshbooks is really popular because it's, it's a lot slimmer. It really just focuses on the things that you would probably need where quickbooks works for pretty much any kind of small to mid sized business and has things like inventory and all, all sorts of things that you might not need. So freshbooks is a little lighter and there's another one called zero. That's x. E. R. O that's really popular. I was at their conference about a month ago.

Scott: I believe that when I was first starting my business and I went with QuickBooks so I've been using QuickBooks for for years. But I think I tried wave was it w w e d and I, I if I recall correctly, when you set it up it even asks what type of business you are. And if you put photography it actually specially adjusted its, its categories for photographers. Way yield is which books did it, but quickbooks did the same thing but it wasn't as fine tuned for photography as wave was. But anyway,

Eric: As a wave, as a wave is a great, I'm glad you brought that one up. So wave is free. We're all the others that I mentioned cost money, but there's a reason I pay money to use one every month. So there's no, sometimes it's free. You get what you pay for. Wave is is good. It will definitely meet your minimum needs. But me with accounting experience, I wanted a little bit more power. I wanted to be able to tinker more. And I think the people who built these programs, quickbooks was probably built more with accountants in mind. So if you feel less accountant d a maybe something like freshbooks or wave might be easier for you. But W I check them all out and see what fits for you because what's really most important, like I said, you can't ignore it. What's important is you pick one that you're really going to use and it doesn't matter which one it is, as long as you use it and you update your stuff every month.

Eric: That's the schedule I'd recommend for everybody. And you know, when you're a corporate accountant, the busiest time of the month is what we call month end close. And that's the first few days of the month where you look back and say, here's everything that happened last month. We write it down in our accounting records. That's called new recording a transaction or for our purposes categorizing. And then you're off with your financial reports. So well it's really cool about any of these apps that I just mentioned is they will link to your bank account or your credit card and you can click one button and all of your transactions will just show up in your bookkeeping app. So all you have to do at that point is click in assign categories. So maybe if you're a digital photographer only, you don't use any film. Your equipment might be computer hardware, photography, hardware and equipment, like the lenses, things like that.

Eric: You'll want to have categories for each of those. So at the end of the year you can look back and say, Oh, here's how much I spent on cameras. And then on the other side, you'll do the same for income. You know, maybe you two different types of events. So you'll have a breakout for weddings and bar Mitzvahs or a breakout for nature photography that you sell online stock photography. There's all sorts of different ways you can make money as a photographer. So what's important to you is to differentiate how you make money. So you can look back and say, here's what's working well and here's what's not working well in my business. Because if you maybe really want to be a stock photography, maybe you think that's like the best way to make a living. You get to live like like Hank Moody did in Californication and just like wake up whenever you want and have this crazy party lifestyle.

Eric: And it was fun show, right? It's like that's like the lifestyle you want, but you realize looking at your books, you make 15 times more doing weddings and bar mitzvahs. And maybe that's not the thing you wanted to do. Maybe that's not what's exciting to you. But if it's what's working, the numbers tell you the story and you have to pay the bills, right? I'm a, I'm a writer, I'm a creative, just like you guys. We're all artists. And we want to think that we can be above money or our craft is so special, but we have to pay our rent or our mortgage, we have to eat, we have to have clothes. So by looking at what's working in your business, you can focus on those areas. And then once you've mastered those and you're getting the best results, then you can go back to the things you want to do in your business more, which might not be as profitable. But because you know, you have your profitable side covered, you have that freedom.

Scott: Let me ask you something. I record in quickbooks. I, well the way I use the, like the import from my bank account so I don't have to like manually do it. It just import and then I then I can categorize and everything. I have a reminder on my calendar the first day of every month to do my business finances. Is that the ideal time to do it or should I wait a few days for potential changes that come into the account? Like is she is the first okay or should you wait till the third fourth, something like that.

Eric: So if it were me, I'd probably wait until around the third or fourth or because of exactly what you said. If you have, maybe you use a an online invoicing service that you have a client invoice payment coming through and whatever payment system you use, like something cool about quickbooks is invoicing and payments are built in. They don't all have that built in or, and you do have to pay a little extra for payments with quickbooks or any payment processor probably. But maybe you have a payment that's made on the 30th of the month and you will get that on the 31st but it doesn't show up on your account yet until the first even if you have that let just one timing scenario where in your case it would work on the first you catch it. But what if it's a credit card payment?

Eric: It takes a couple of days to show up. If you update your books on the first, you are looking back at last months books and they're not complete, you're missing an income or an expense. Right. So what I do is, what I'd recommend for most people when you get your bank statement in the mail or email, whatever, however you get it, it's usually around the seventh ish, 10th ish of the month for most banks because they take, they have to have all those transactions processed. Like we were just saying there system delays and then they'll make your statement, send it out to you. So once you have that statement, you know your books are locked or your accounts are locked, nothing's going to change going backward. So I mean I'm kind of a Weirdo cause I left financing money. I'll update my about once a week, maybe even more. But at the time that's most important is that one about a week after the end of the month, you get, make sure everything from the prior month is categorized, right.

Eric: And then here's actually a little little accounting one oh one I call this kind of step five and a four steps of how to be an accountant for your own business process. I give a little talk on that. So the last thing you need to do after you've picked your bookkeeping software, imported your transactions, categorize them. The last step is called reconciliation, which is a really scary word, but it really just means comparing my big statement to my accounting and make sure they match. And if you use one of the online one is like with quickbooks online, I click a button and it will do it by itself. And just tell me if there's a difference. And if there's a difference, I can usually look at my bank statement and figure out, oh there's one transaction missing. But the reason you do that is at the end of the year you're going to use these other x.

Eric: There's two reasons. So one, you're going to use it for taxes. And if you over report your income and then you're paying too much taxes. If you under of what your income, then you are paying too little and that's a crime. So you want to do it right. And I don't, I'm not one to recommend underpaying taxes. I think you should just follow the rules. Do it by the book. I mean lower your taxes as much as you can legally. But that's also part of why we're doing this because as a business, if you're profitable, you can deduct expenses which lowers your taxable income. So I'm going to try to simplify that a little because I know there's a lot of big words. So let's say you make $50,000 a year as a within your photography business all in, and you spend $10,000 a year on gear and hosting and websites and business cards and marketing and have everything all in.

Eric: Maybe you pay for insurance for yourself through your business, y'all, all kinds of things. So at the end of the year, $40,000 of what you made as profit. Even though you brought in 50,000 in revenue. So the IRS as an individual, you don't have to worry about this, you just pay taxes on what your paycheck says. When you own a business, you have to say, Oh, do I pay taxes on the 50,000 or 40,000 and because you made money, because you are profitable, you only pay taxes on the 40,000 you can deduct the expenses. That's what a deduction means. So that's part of why we're doing this every month. So at the end of the year, you get every single possible deduction because if you bought $1,000 lens and your tax rate bracket is 25% if you forget to write that down in your books, that's $250 off your taxes that you, you missed out on.

Eric: So it's really important. I'd rather have $250 and give it to the government. I know. Personally, I think that, I think that transcends political parties and opinions. So that's, that's part of why it's really important to track this stuff. And the second reason other than taxes is what we were talking about. Knowing what's working in your business. You know when an example of that, when I was three months into full time self-employment, I'd just quit my job. I'm like any goods, good job with like any good smart dad with a six month old daughter and a stay at home mom. If I'd quit my job, sold my house and moved to southern California, one of the most expensive parts of the country. So I was very focused on my numbers and my books and three months in I was thinking, Geez, based on the projections I had done from when I was doing this as a side hustle, when I was doing it part time, I thought I'd be making about two to three times what I was, what I had made part time when I went full time because about two to three times the hours, but I wasn't seeing that.

Eric: I was making more definitely, but not at the rate I thought. So I looked at my books and I was staring at them because I'm a numbers guy and that's just, I guess I, I guess that's a curse and a gift depending on how you look at it. Yeah, and I was staring at the numbers and I noticed something just doing quick mental math. Part of my business, I was doing website development and that made me about 15 17% of my income and part of my business was freelance writing and that made me about 76% of my income, but I was spending about 20% of my time on writing and about 80% of my time on website development. So if you caught those numbers there, that's almost exactly the 80 20 rule. If you've heard of the 80 20 rule or Pareto's principle, who just smacked me in the face and said, Eric, here's your 80 20 so I quit doing the website development work, started doing writing full time only, and that meant walking away from a profitable business that was making me money.

Eric: But over that next three months, my income roughly tripled to over $10,000 a month for the first time ever. And it has only dipped back below that twice in over three years. So the story that I got from my accounting books, and yeah, they're numbers, but there's really a story in there and that's the story of Your Business and how well you're doing and what's working and what's not. So that's why we're doing it. That's why we're doing our bookkeeping and doing all these little, sometimes kind of boring technical things, categorizing our transactions, because that gives us the information we need to make the best decisions to succeed in our business. However we want to do that.

Scott: You know, one of the things that I like about quickbooks, especially if you import from the bank, is it automatically looks at the transaction and can, can give you suggested category for that transaction. And you can edit it. And not only can you edit it, but you can edit it and say for all future transactions for this, you know, if it's the same, you're buying from like my MailChimp. Right. For me, it's automatically categorizes dues and subscriptions every month. Right.

Eric: Me, it's ConvertKit. Same thing. Yeah. Are you Methodist? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I domain names. I have a thing set up that if it ever says Google domains, that's who I use. [inaudible] Or GoDaddy, it'll auto categorize. They're not perfect, but they're pretty good. Yeah. So that's, I'll go to a restaurant and it'll show up as travel or I'll go to [inaudible] or who knows, you know, some kind of purchase might show up,

Scott: You know, I, I find so, so I have, yeah. So I have I have, you know, like food as if like like if I take a client out, right, for, for coffee or for, for lunch or something like that, I have that as a category. But then I have travel food if I'm out traveling for, for at a trade show or something like that. So sometimes if I travel and I come back and then I go to a restaurant here that's as travel food. Like I feel like quickbooks, it learns from you, but sometimes it's not smart enough to realize, you know, it's, it's smart but it's not perfect.

Eric: It's not a, it's not an AI yet. Yeah. Yet the machine learning is in there. But yeah. Yeah, it's good that you brought that up. Also that distinction between taking a client to a coffee versus getting your coffee if you're on the road at a conference or traveling for work, cause there could be different tax rates for those. So every type of expense for your business, that's the kind of thought process you should have. And how does this affect my business? You know, if you're driving a lot for, for client work or for any kind of kind of business purpose, you want to track your miles, that's another category you could track. Even if you're not deducting the gas, the IRS lets you write off a certain, it's about 50 cents a mile. It shifted, it changes every year. It goes up a little bit. But all these things you track cause it saves you on your taxes and helps you run your business.

Scott: I do have, I do have a suggestion for any photographers who do want to start tracking your miles, which I do recommend. There's a device called automatic and you literally plug it into the computer of your car where, where the a mechanic would plug into to diagnose, you know, the computer, you plug it in, you just leave it plugged in and it uses cell networks to track your car at all times, which has two benefits. One is you can literally track your car at all times. Know like you can if you park somewhere,

Eric: I have the original version. So the, the old automatic, they're super cool.

Scott: Yeah. And then the other one, the other advantage is you could also mark on a trip as business. So I can literally log into automatics website and export everything that I did that was business and have and give that to my accountant at the end of the year. And you know,

Eric: Take your 50 cents a mile. Yeah, another one, another app. That'll do that. That doesn't involve buying the device for your car is called Mile IQ. It used to be independent. Now it's owned by a company that it's Microsoft the end of the day. But they do a good job and I think they have a free version, which for most independent photographers would be plenty for everything you need it, it does just what you said, it'll track when you drive around, you just tap a button that says, oh that was work. Yeah. What's the way that I do it myself. I know I fly a lot for work. I know I'll go to conferences around the country. I've mentioned a few. So I fly out of Burbank or Santa Barbara or lax for each con depending on where I'm going and what the best flight deal was. So I actually have a spreadsheet cause you know, again, used to be an accountant and I tally each time I have a trip to the airport. So I put in my spreadsheet. I know from my house to lax and back is x miles, you know, 110 miles or something. So if I have five lax trips for work every year, you know, I can put a five there. And that's another way to estimate. So if you haven't been tracking perfectly, you can still go back, use Google maps or something and figure out how far trips were for work purposes. You can still claim those.

Scott: And I, you know, I, I might be wrong in saying this as well, but you don't have to be like exact, you know, it's not like the government's gonna come and look at your, your, your odometer every, every month. Like you don't have to be 100% exactly. Miles off. Yeah, you can round it. So

Eric: When I was, when I was in corporate finance, I was on Java, I was in a financial planning and analysis or FP and a on product lines that were over $1 billion. We saw us $1 million was a rounding error. So like if the IRS, they really don't care about five, 10 bucks they want, if it's a few thousand, they care. But they really care if your photography Gig was 30 miles away or 34 miles away. As long as you know, just guess your, do your best guest.

Scott: Before, before we move on to the next topic, I just want to say one more thing that I really like about quickbooks that really sold me on quickbooks. As somebody who's deep in the wordpress space and I used to work at an it security company, so I'm quite paranoid about security. And

Eric: I want you to look at my house now. I'm a techie nerd. I have stuff all over firewalls on my firewalls.

Scott: Good. So, so the, the two things like about, about a quickbooks one is two factor authentication. So it has that, but I know that like fresh books would have that and other, you know, companies would have that. But the thing that really makes me happy is they have the accountant access. So I don't have to give my accountant my login credentials. I literally add their email address, their account to my quickbooks, and they have access to certain things as an accountant. They can do what they need to.

Eric: A little a perk of that if you do hire an accountant. So that's one other thing that I, I'd say so I think most people, if you are smart enough that you have built a business around photography and you are here listening to this show and trying to improve, you are probably a person who could do this all yourself in an hour or less per month. I firmly believe that most people can do that. But there is no shame in hiring an accountant. I've thought about hiring an accountant even though I used to be an accountant just to save time. Just cause I'm busy and even though I could do it myself, I could pay someone else to do it and you write off that cost and it would just be done for me. The one that I've looked at would be $150 a month is a friend of mine and he does just online people like to do what I do, influencers, bloggers, podcasters, youtubers, that kind of thing.

Eric: But there are local accountants and online companies, even like bench, and there's one that I like called e data quick there. I'm based in the Philippines, so you can kind of outsource your accounting to them and they'll do all the bookkeeping and everything and just send it back to you. And because they're in the Philippines, they're super cheap. A bench there in the u s they do the same thing. They cost more. But the important thing is that it gets done. This is not something you can ignore in your business. If you remember the movie dodge ball was an awesome movie. There was a scene where Peter Fluor, the star has, he's in foreclosure and his gym and the woman from the bank comes and says, Oh, do you have your bookkeeping records? And he opens up a closet door and there's boxes of shoe boxes with receipts.

Eric: Start falling out like that. That does not run a business. That doesn't work. You can't do your taxes accurately, which, I mean, that's just a legal issue. But that aside, you can't, how do you know if you're doing well with your business? You know, I have I won't pick on this person by name, but somebody that I know is starting a business and they had all these clients and they were making revenue but they had never added up their costs. So they didn't know if they were profitable or not and they were using their personal bank accounts. So they really had no idea they could have been losing $50 on every gig and had no idea. So that's why you have to do this stuff. You just have to know if you're making money.

Scott: Speaking of, of profit and being profitable, what the heck is a p? And? L?

Eric: Yes. Great question. So P and l is a profit and loss statement if you had a business school. And other term for that is income statement. So the place that you will probably have seen this or you not probably, you may have seen this before, if you've ever done any investing or bought any stocks, every public company has to put one of these out. They have to release an income statement. So if you're curious right now and you've never looked at one, you can just search online for any big company and the term income statement and you will find it. It's out there. So that's just an example to see what they look like. But for you and yours might not look like Amazon's or Google or apple or you know, some giant company and a few, a few zeros less. But the basic idea is the same thing.

Eric: So it's going to be broken down into a couple sections. The top section is revenue. So that's all of the sales you make are all the dollars that come in the door. Then the next section is expenses. So that's you know, anything you buy, anything you spend money on. Then at the bottom, if you ever hear the term, the bottom line, here's where it comes from. You subtract all of your expenses from your revenues and the bottom line is your profit. So that's why it's a profit and loss statement. And if your expenses are bigger than your revenue, then it's a loss simply over profit statement and not a loss statement. But if it's a negative number, it means you need to fix something in your business, right. Or, or maybe maybe you had planned one month that you were going to buy a new camera and a few new lenses and you just know that month is going to be negative and that's okay because you planned for it, but you definitely don't want to have negative months that you didn't plan for because that's how you got a business. That's that, that that doesn't work. It's not sustainable. Yeah.

Scott: So a pop quiz. Which TV show do you like more shark tank or the profit?

Eric: I actually don't have cable so I don't regularly watch either. I like shark tank a little more I think. But I honestly, if so I do watch some reality shows that are maybe not like a Kardashians fan. Like I like I have a level of trashy shows I can watch my, the ones that I like are the gold mining one, gold rush and Gordon Ramsay's kitchen nightmares because they're business shows or hotel hell, that's another Gordon Ramsey ones. It's kind of the same idea as the profit. Just the different industries. I, I think it's really fun to look at different ways companies operate. That's why I went to business school twice. I, that's just something I was always interested in. And when I was a kid playing computer games, I was playing all the sim games and all the tycoon games trying to build businesses like lemonade, Sam Tyco, try and make money. So that to me that was just always interesting. I whenever I have [inaudible] sometimes I think it's a disease. Like I go to like even I go to Disneyland or somewhere like that. I don't live too far. And you, most people are there to have the magical experience and I'm looking around trying to see all the places they make money. That's just how I look at any, any thing where I go [inaudible] I trip over something and I'm like, oh, business idea. It's a shiny object, entrepreneurs syndrome.

Scott: But I'm, I'm totally totally doing that with like marketing aspect. Like, like why are they doing it that way? Or like, like that was a really good idea.

Eric: Yeah. Like that kind of thing. We got to do it for our own podcasts around this is a whatever business you have. That's another reason I like watching shows like that and or even your paying attention like that. When I'm out and about at a mall or anywhere, you're out in public pretty much. That's not a parks. You're there trying to make money off of you. I was thinking about that. A little kids. I'm like, where can I go? That is a place that's not about making money off of me for going there and I came up with the beach and the park.

Scott: Ah, not New Jersey. Not, not in New Jersey. They charge you to get on the beach.

Eric: Oh, we have to. We have to pay to park at the beach.

Scott: We have to pay to park and we have to pay to park and to get on the beach. Wow.

Eric: Yeah. That's like the opposite of California, California. There's actually a state law that you can't own beach or block access to the beach. So, even by the, you know, $5,000 a night hotels in Santa Barbara, they're still public beaches. They have to let you go there.

Scott: Wow. That'd be nice. Oh Man. New Jersey.

Eric: Well, we're friends in New York, New Jersey, California. I feel like we're all, we're all on the same playbooks, right? We're all friends.

Scott: So, so my last question to you is for the photographers that are just starting out in their business, even considering making their hobby into a business. And you touched on this briefly when we first started talking, should photographers registered there, sell themselves as a business like or a what point should they register themselves as a business and if they do, should it be an incorporation and LLC? What is the ideal two questions, should they and then which one and why?

Eric: Yeah, so that, that is a great point and a great question. And it is something every business owner needs to think about. And the answer actually depends on where you live. So there is a point in any business that you would want to register. That's probably going to be the point. You can make a full time living on it at that point. It doesn't matter where you live, you want to be registered. It doesn't matter if you're an expensive state or a cheap state. But before that point, there's a lot of deaths. Well, what F's, so if you live, I, I used to live in Colorado. I grew up in Denver. I was in Colorado about 25 years. So I started a few companies when I lived in Colorado. Registering a new LLC in that state was about 50 bucks and every year I think it was $50 and every year it's a $10 fee to keep registered.

Eric: When you file your annual form with the state in California, the minimum cost is $800 a year if you register a business. So if you're making $5,000 a year and you live in Colorado, I would say yes, you should register. If you live in California, I would say not yet, but hopefully you'll, you will grow and there will be appointed in the future in between. I lived in Oregon and there was I think 200 a year to start a business or 200 to start in that a hundred to renew. So they're at 5,000 a year. It's kind of a tougher decision, you know, is it worth that or not? And so is it worth it? So what are the benefits of registering said, why would you put that cost in to begin with? There are two big reasons you would register. So first is legal protections.

Eric: So if you are a, let's say you do weddings and weddings are just saying easy photography business to, to pick on. And let's say you do weddings and you are out doing a wedding at some beautiful place and you get down on one knee to take a picture. Someone walks up the aisle and one of the bridesmaids trips over your camera bag or your camera strap and breaks their arm. Like problem. Was that really your fault? Probably not. But you know, we could argue that it was your fault. You shouldn't have been there. We could argue she should have been watching where she was going. Doesn't matter. That kind of thing could happen. It's very unlikely, but it's possible. So what's going to happen in that situation? Maybe they're going to be nice and say, oops, I should've been watching where I was going and they will have three extra drinks at the reception, the get rid of the pain in their arm or whatever.

Eric: But maybe it's a broken arm and they decided to sue you because you are a business provider and you tripped them. So if you are not registered as a business, they are suing you personally. So that means they could go after your house, your retirement account, your bank account, your car, anything. If you are a registered business as an LLC or s Corp, those are the two you would think about as a small business. Probably you wouldn't want to be a c Corp. And that's more for startups that are planning to sell stock. Eventually your situations, you would probably wanna be an LLC or s Corp. So in either one of those cases, as long as you keep separate bank accounts and uphold what's called the corporate veil, that means not blending your personal and business finances. Really running it like a business. If they sue you, they're suing your business, not you in that situation.

Eric: So the bridesmaid that files the lawsuit, they can go after your business assets. So maybe they can seize your cameras or your laptop or something. Anything owned by your business but they can't go after your house. They can't go after your personal money. So that's why one, that's the biggest reason most people would want to register early on as to get that protection. And if you have any questions about that, you know you can talk to local small business lawyers, they'll probably answer some questions pretty cheap and you can even file yourself online. I've never, I paid one time a company to do it when I did an s corp but all the LLC is, I've done a bunch, I've done myself and I'm not a lawyer

Scott: So, so I get that. The reason. Oh yeah,

Eric: I was going to get one last thing, cause I know this is kind of a long winded answer with complex questions. So after you hit a point where you're making ballpark 35 40,000 a year, whatever you would, if you hired a photographer to work for you full time, whatever their salary would be. When you make more than that, if you are an LLC, that taxes as an s corp, which that's just a form you fill out or an s corp, either way you can pay yourself a paycheck and you only have to pay self employment taxes, which is like social security, Medicare, Medicaid, taxes that the employer pays, which if you've had a full time job, you see you pay a part and your employer pays part. When you're self employed you have to pay both parts. But when you have this s Corp setup and you are an employee, any income you earn over your paycheck, you don't have to put those payroll taxes on only your regular income tax rate.

Eric: So anything over that, you know, 35 40,000 a year, you pay lower taxes. That's more money in your pocket at the end of the year. So that's new businesses. Don't worry about that. And it sounds kind of confusing if you needed to talk to an accountant. You know, again, there's no shame in talking to a professional when setting it up, but if you're making more than, you know, let's say 35, 40,000 a year, seriously at that point, you definitely should register for that tax benefit. Plus the legal benefit, I'd say no matter where you live and have a long winded answer. Thanks everyone for not passing out on [inaudible].

Scott: Yeah. So, so I did an LLC for my business here in New Jersey and they don't charge me to renew every year. It was $150 to register. I have to pay if I want to ever to dissolve, dissolve the business. But the way New Jersey gets you instead of renewing every year is you have to submit a annual report, which is really, it's bogus. It's like, yes, yes, yes. You know and that, that's like a hundred and something dollars. So they get you almost the same amount as you did as you paid to register to do this online annual report that takes two seconds to do and they charge you a fortune. So,

Eric: And some states when you do a statement of information or acquire information from your balance sheet or your P and, l, so all those, those reasons for bookkeeping, there's more reasons to do it, you know, to have that accessible. But yeah, but definitely just Google or whatever your favorite search engine is, search for your state secretary of state. That is where you would file and create a new business entity. And that's where you can out what it costs. And there are websites that will just list out all the costs for you, but you know, don't feel like you have to pay someone like legal zoom. You can, but you don't have to. You can do this yourself. What's really important is that you know why or why not you are registering because you're like, like your books, you can't just ignore it and assume it will be right and fix itself. You have to take a few minutes because this is your livelihood and it's, God forbid the bridesmaid situation and someone sues you. You will be really happy you had that registration and maybe even insurance in place rather than just operating as a sole proprietor under your own name

Scott: For sure. So, so thank you, Eric for for joining today where I'm, I'm glad to finally got you on here and yeah, I think, I think you able to break things down simply for, for the average Joe Schmoe too, so I understand. So that was great. So thank you for that as well. You can find the show notes from today's episode where to find Eric and everything that was mentioned on today's episode at 87. Don't forget to subscribe to the show on Apple podcast, stitcher or Spotify, Google play and whatever you listen to podcasts, including we are now pending at Pandora, so hopefully well hopefully by the time this goes out, we're approved at Pandora. We'll see what happens. I don't know. They just opened the doors, so I don't know how long it takes them to approve podcast. So thank you again, Eric. And until next time.

clean no 40:52 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 86 – How Chuck Norris Hired Me with Kylee Ann Maughan Thu, 05 Sep 2019 12:00:54 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 86
Kylee Ann Maughan

Kylee started Kylee Ann Photography 8 years ago and has since grown from a one-woman amateur show to a full associate team. After a year of teaching Intro to Photography at the local technical college, she discovered that helping other entrepreneurs create thriving businesses is what fires her up! She hosts semi-annual Kylee Ann Sleepovers all over the US, speak at conferences and teach online courses.

Joke of the day:

Ever since buying a digital camera, I can only think of its positive points. There aren’t any negatives.

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What we discuss:

  • How Kylee Booked Chuck Norris for the Day with A WordPress Blog
  • Why Kylee switched to ShowIt for her main website, and how she could have kept with WordPress as a solution.
  • Build A Successful Marketing Strategy through Consistent Blogging

Where to find Kylee:

Referenced Links:


Transcription was done by which means it's an AI generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video.

Scott: Ever since buying a digital camera, I can only think of its positive points. There aren’t any negatives. Welcome to episode 86 my name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and I'm joined by my guest Kylee Ann. Welcome Kylee. I'm a, we've been trying to get you on so I'm glad you're on.

Kylee: Yes, I'm so glad. I'm sorry it took so long, but I don't think this works out best for both of us, so it should be fine.

Scott: Yeah, it does. Um, so Kylee started Kylee and photography eight years ago and has since grown from a one woman amateur show to a four associate team, which is really, really fantastic. After a year of teaching intro to photography at a local technical college, she discovered that helping other ex entrepreneurs create thriving businesses is what fires her up. She hosted semi-annual Kylee and fleet covers all over a, the u s speaks at conferences and teaches on blind courtship courses. Hi. Can't speak today. Um, so how do you like the new joke intro? I'm going to be toying around with doing these for the seasons. Season four of the podcast. A jokes like this, like the one you just heard are quite cheesy. And I think that, uh, when you talk about business and marketing and things like that, we need to lighten the mood with a good cheesy jokes on time. So if I want to hear what, what you as listeners think of the, the joke, uh, introduction and if you think we should stick with it, uh, if you have an idea for a joke just tweeted at us at emotionally and I will, uh, do my best to include it in one of the episodes. So, uh, Kylee, um, what is going on with you because, uh, while we've, we both been quite busy lately, so I'm, I want to know what's going on in your world.

Kylee: Well, while you are redoing your studio, my studio was getting finished, so I have been building a home the last year and we actually moved into it just this last month and I got to build a backyard studio. So it's just a little house. That's where I am right now in my backyard. And I shoot brands out here and I record podcasts out here. And it's been so much fun.

Scott: So you say it's a little house, is it, um, literally a house or is it like one of those sheds that looks like a house that you,

Kylee: it's not technically a house. It's like a miniature version of my house though. It has a bathroom, it has electricity, it has heating AC. So it's, I mean it's like kind of like a, you know, those like small air beam, it doesn't have a shower. So I feel like it could be an airbnb without a shower.

Scott: You can always do an out and outdoor should I work? Um, so, uh, you made it match your house, like fighting, roofing, all that stuff. It all matches.

Kylee: It all matches except for, it's called the bluff store studio. So the doors pink, my husband wouldn't let us paint the front door pink to match it. So besides that, it's completely like an identical mini house of my, my first Lee Frat House. So it's been fun.

Scott: So did you put in any garage style doors to bring in big items or is it just normal door, you know, to,

Kylee: no, so we have really tall, I guess for the Youtube people you can see this. We have really tall windows. Oh yeah, you're out the back. So it's like a whole wall of windows on that side. And then over here it's just a big white wall, 13 feet, no outlets, which is the best because we hate photoshopping out heads. So, and then I have a pink wall. I'm, if you can't tell pink's kind of my color. So lots of pink going on in here. It's been good

Scott: just to geek out on, on, uh, you know, home studio is a bit, uh, what did you do for your floor? Speaking of, uh, water dropping on the floor?

Kylee: Yes, it's a light laminate, just like a light cream color, which is super nice because it's really good for flat lays, but then it's really light, so it doesn't like to strike. I used to have a gray in my home studio and so it was a little darker, so I liked that. It's like a light laminate. It's good. And I've caught or rugs all over too. Good.

Scott: Good. Yeah. So when I, uh, as everybody heard in the last episode of last season have last season, uh, I had a flood in my home studio, so I had to Redo my, my, uh, my entire home studio, the walls, the floor, got rid of carpet and I now have a vinyl laminate that is gray. It's like sort of like that dirty gray, so, oh, nice. It's beautiful. It, you can't really tell when it's dirty, unfortunately. That's Kinda Nice though, right? Yeah, I guess. Um, but, uh, it has this texture. It feels like wood. It's cool. It's fun. Yeah. So, um, anyway. Okay. So today, uh, we are going to be talking about something that, uh, I think is going to be really interesting to different topics that I definitely wanted to get to the first of which as a karate students, I'm very excited for this topic. Um, you booked Chuck Norris, or shall I say, uh, Chuck Norris booked you because Chuck Norris does everything, right? Yeah.

Kylee: Yes. So this was probably one of the most surreal moments in my career. It's one of my favorite stories cause it's one of those like, no, you didn't like, this is a joke. You know, it's like your joke in the beginning, like all the Chuck Norris Jokes, the dad jokes, there's just a joke for everything. But like, no, really, Chuck Norris booked me. So yeah, I'm excited to get into this too because I think it's a fun story, but also like good, like life lesson on blogging. So, yeah.

Scott: Yup. Bayless, let's get into it.

Kylee: Okay. So, um, I have been blogging backstory. I've been blogging since 2013 three times a week. Now it's a little bit more because when you start book or when you start blogging three times a week for six years, then you get busier and busier and busier. So now we're blogging five or seven times a week just to keep up with the content. Obviously I have a big team now, so we have to blog all of that work. So when I started blogging, um, the goal was to boost my SEO. So that's why I chose a wordpress blog, because wordpress, not only is it super customizable and easy to use, I mean easy is kind of a relative term because I feel like probably a lot of people think it's the worst thing ever. But once you get used to it, it's the easiest thing to use.

Kylee: It's easy to customize, it's easy to change. But I wanted to use wordpress for the Plugin SEO Yoast, it's like been the biggest help in learning SEO for me. So I started blogging, I started using SEO Yoast, is that what it's called? Yeah, I think it's Yoast SEO, but it's okay. Yes. Y'All says, yeah. Okay. Yes. SEO. And um, it was telling me like what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong for SEO. And that's kind of how I got into, um, getting my name to the top of Google. So for those of you who don't know a lot about SEO, it's basically like getting your organic. Like when people search organically on Google, they find you. So I started blogging three times a week in 2011 in January and six months later I had boosted to the number one spot for our local area. So fast forward a few years, Chuck Norris came to town, which was a big deal, like people were lining up.

Kylee: Chuck Norris came to town and apparently had not booked. Decided like, Oh last minute we need a photographer to follow us on this tour. And I was actually in Salt Lake in the airport leaving on a trip to California and I get this text that's like, hey, check Norris needs a photographer for day. Are you available? We found you on Google. And of course I'm like, oh shoot, do I get off this plane? Like what do I do? And also instantly I'm like, yeah, Technora definitely wants to book me and my photographer next to me. She was actually there taking me to the airport. I was like, that is definitely a scam. Like Chuck Norris doesn't want to. I am like totally like, yeah, chuck Norris was the bully. What are you talking about? And she's like, this isn't a skim. You need to like not reply. And so I said, how fast can you get back to Logan? And she went and got in my minivan, drove as fast as she could because she was supposed to be started working in an hour. And um, she got there, ran there, was like a huge line. So she had a park like a mile away run with her camera and then she spent the rest of the day photographing Chuck Norris. So that's our story.

Scott: So, um, do you know, do you know what, um, blog content that he, that he or his team was looking at, uh, when they found you on Google and, and decided to call you or text you?

Kylee: Yeah, so it definitely wasn't romantic wedding photographer that he was looking at. Um, but I think that, I think that he just starts Logan, Utah photographer. And since we had blogs so consistently with that keyword or keywords around there and kind of optimize our blog for the, that keyword, um, we were the first phone call and I don't think he really was looking for a specific style. Obviously, that's the great thing about SEO is like, he's not really looking for a style or like their ENL chuck Norris photographer. He's not googling, um, those kinds of things. He's googling his location, which I think is awesome because if we can all get to the top of Google for our locations, the doors are open for some opportunities.

Scott: Yeah. I, I don't know what the statistic is, uh, any more. I used to know a few years ago, but like it was like the first spot, it was like 60% more chances to get a click, then the second, which was like 30% in the, you know, so, um, if you can get the first spot, there's a, there's more chances for, for a lot more leads and a lot more clients. A end as you found out even more notable clients, like somebody like Chuck Norris, um, who, you know, you don't want to mess with Chuck Norris when he says, when he's come through my phone, you know, counting my photos, you'll go take his photos. Right,

Kylee: exactly. Like, even if you have to get off the plane, if that's your only option.

Scott: Yeah. Um, so, okay. So that's great. You know, um, I, I kind of geek out on that a little bit because first photography, business, wordpress, but then martial arts as a martial arts student, somebody who actually has martial arts clients, um, you know, awesome. Yeah. So that's, that's, that's fun. Um, okay, so let's talk about, uh, something that comes up a lot. Uh, I see it a lot in Cory potters, a few of your photo's group people wanting to switch from wordpress or Squarespace to show it or, and you switched your website to show it, but your blog is on wordpress. And, uh, I know why your blog isn't wordpress could show it doesn't offer a blog. They offer wordpress as the blog, but I want to hear from you, uh, why you switched to show it, what your main reasons were and how that could be addressed on the wordpress side. Not to, you know, convince you to come back to the wordpress to the dark side. But, um, more just to educate people who are thinking about the switch, you know, uh, do you really have to go through that process or he can, can you just do it with wordpress? So, um, what was your main reasons for switching to show it?

Kylee: Okay, so there's a couple of reasons. So first of all, if you've ever been to show at United Conference, that is their main conference. I'm actually speaking at it this year on building an associate team, so that'll be fun. But great. Um, the people at show United are just like really awesome down to Earth, amazing people. And when I go to this conference, you just kind of feel like a family. Like everybody hugs. It's like a thing and I'm not really a touchy person, but you just feel like you like have your family. So I went to this conference, learned about show it. Um, and initially I had a short website in a wordpress website but years and years ago when I first was on show it like in the beginning when they weren't combined and I realized I gave up my show at site and I went solely to work press because it was more beneficial and having two websites wasn't really working cause you don't need a website and a blog, you can do a web site and a blog together.

Kylee: So I use wordpress solely for years and years and years and had a website and then when show it combined with wordpress I was like match made in heaven because I loved, I know why you're going to explain that you can do this another way but I love that you can build a website with drag and drop like features, adding your fonts, all these things that were a little more complicated when I was trying to customize the theme, like I got pretty good at like learning code, like little snippets of code and stuff like that. But when I wanted to like add a font, it like just depended on the theme or if I wanted to move things around or make things full size, each thing was different and I didn't know how to like create something with drag and drop.

Scott: Yeah. So one of the advantages of the show it a page builder is that it's cr, it's a grid list system, which is something that, um, as far as I'm aware of, only two page builders in on the wordpress side have this capability. Uh, there is, there are advantages to this is that you're not limited to sort of a grid, which is basically columns. You're not, you're not limited to, to a bunch of columns. The disadvantage though is that photographers a, once they start messing around with the grid list system, they could, they could potentially make their website look really bad. You know, you start, it's like, it's like a photographer trying to make their marketing materials in Photoshop when they're, they're good at photography when they suck at making marketing and they're suck at graphic design, you know. So, um, the same thing could happen if you start, uh, trying to overdo things when you're not a hundred percent comfortable in a grid list system. So, uh, but with that said, if you look at some of the grid list designs that is available for show it from places like tonic site shop, they're amazing. They're, they're gorgeous. Um, but again, it could be done in wordpress. So I'll get back to that, uh, anything else before we, uh, that you wanted to share about this.

Kylee: So then I also love that I could build a blog site now with the new, the new show it you can build the blog site with your show it so you can make it all plug in, which I loved that it integrated. And then I also loved just, yeah, the templates and everything were so pretty through their show at store, through tonic, through a lot of different designers. And then I also love that. Um,

Scott: okay.

Kylee: Hold on. My sister, this one in window making faces. Okay. She's dropping off her children. Okay. Okay. Let me think.

Scott: What was I saying? You also like,

Kylee: Oh yes. Um, I also love that I can easily like add pages, kind of like wordpress, but I could add pages and copy the same design and just like restart a new page and, um, just I feel like duplicating things and copying and pasting things was so much easier as far as like the design side of things.

Scott: Okay. Um, so let's start in the beginning, um, with, well first of all, do you remember what theme and Eh, you were that you were using when on wordpress side before you decided to switch to show it had a curious yeah.

Kylee: Oh, I used, uh, there were three themes that I kinda three thing companies I rotated through. Angie makes blue chick and restored three 60, I think it was what it was called. Yup. Um, so they're kind of like girly sites if you've ever looked at up. I like early things, so that's like the places I could find stuff that matched that brand.

Scott: Okay. Um, so, uh, if I, if I recall correctly and none of those have a page builder option, um, now here's the funding. The Fun thing with wordpress is wordpress now. Now as of, uh, I think it was right after Christmas, so right after December, 2018. Right? Yeah. Um, uh, it's so weird to think about that and we're already getting close to this again, but, um, so, so in December they came out with what caught what the code name was, was called Gutenberg. It's basically an brand new visual editor and

Kylee: Oh yeah, wordpress

Scott: now has the page builder built in. Um, oh, it's a grid integrated system, but there are actually some extensions that, uh, can actually make it grid list if you wanted it to be grid lists. But, um, you can actually do full page builder designs, including with templates so that you could save and reuse them on other pages, uh, all built into wordpress. You could even do it without, without added plugins now, but you could add plugins to make it, to enhance it. So if this, if your conversion was, you know, over a year ago or less than a year ago, rather, you know, um, that alone you could be doing what you're doing now. Right? Um, just it's grid versus grid list, but there's also a plugin that very popular, uh, page builder plugin called [inaudible] and this plugin, which it's, uh, there's a bunch of different page builder plugins that have been popular over the years.

Scott: Visual composer, which uh, I'm not personally a fan of, but it's quite popular. Divvy, which is probably the most popular page builder plugin available. Beaver builder, which is a very, very popular for developers. And then element or which is a really overcome a lot of the others and it's giant and it's now being used by a lot of web designers and Elementor added a grid list option into their, oh, you can either do it grid or grid lists with a, basically you would drop in an element, you drop in let's say a contact form and you'd go into the settings and you would just check off if you want it to be absolute positioning or basically free flow, like where you can put it, where you want it. Um, so now let's say for people thinking, okay, I want to go to show it because I have complete control over the design where I want things to be. Uh, now that, that, that option is there with wordpress, whether you do it with the built in page builder that called the block editor or you do it with fucking like elementary.

Kylee: So can you find themes specifically like for Elementor that help you, like with design aspects?

Scott: Yes. So element or has their own starter theme, just call I think it's called element or hello and but element or works with any theme that you want. Uh, and they have, they have a template system built in. So the free version has a bunch of templates and then the paid version gives you templates for like full site designs. So, um, and then of course there's, there's people who just like, um, like Melissa Love people who sell designs for element or for other page builders, stuff like that. Oh Wow. Yeah. So, and, and there's the ability that you could create a page and literally just copy paste or duplicate to another. Um, another page just like you can show it. Yeah. One thing that we're pressed does not have, which wordpress does have WordCamps these conferences, but they're not just for photographers. You know, they're, they're for anybody using wordpress from developers to designers to end users, uh, where show at United, he show he does have show at United. Um, so that is the big difference is the community is, is, um, not as tight as it, uh, in the wordpress side because it is. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that's a big advantage. If you're a photographer who wants, um, that tight community built around your website and what your website does for you, then, you know, maybe show it is oh, direction to go versus wordpress. But if, you know, there's pros and cons to everything, of course.

Kylee: So does Elementor cost extra money like monthly, or is it a one time fee?

Scott: So element, or there's a free version, which is actually very powerful for a free plugin, and then there is a paid plugin that you can pay annually to get, and there's different levels of it, um, to get additional features and things like that. Uh, and it's not expensive, actually. I think, uh, I think it's like a hundred dollars a year or something like that. So it's not, not that's bad. Yeah, that's not bad. Um, and we'll see that an image of the, we're also coming out with our own stuff, um, including a, an entire, uh, turnkey photography website platform, um, built around, uh, the block editor. So we're going on something, uh, equally as easy and powerful as show it very soon. Um, awesome. Yeah, that's really cool. Um, let's see if we can squeeze in, uh, this last topic that I wanted to, um, uh, bring up.

Scott: And in the beginning of this discussion we talked about how Chuck Norris found you through your blogging. Um, could you dive a little deeper into how, uh, how you, how you got consistent and, and what the strategy was and, and um, how you, how you keep up with it. Like I used to be as consistent as you on my own personal photography site. Um, these days it's becoming harder and harder, but, um, I'm curious how you, how you wind up being able to do it. And you know, the strategy besides just the FTO, which you talked about? Of course.

Kylee: Yes. So I think that the key to having great SEO and having um, it, the blog actually working for you is to be consistent. I think that if you blog like once a year or every six months or like you blog one like one month consistently and then you drop off for six months, it's just not even really working for you as a tool because it's not doing what it needs to do to like push you to stop the Google and stuff like that. So I decided if I'm in a blog, it has to be consistent and I have to keep up with it. So in the beginning when I started blogging, you know, six years ago, three times a week, I didn't have like a ton of content. So I kind of made a pattern for myself. I would do like an educational type post one day on like on Monday, on Wednesdays I would do like a client feature and then on Fridays I'd do like a personal post so I could get at least one client a week.

Kylee: And if I could it I would go shoot like a neighbor or a friend. So I'm consistently showing up, posting, you know, client photos. And then the education ones weren't necessarily photography. Like for photographers it was like what to wear for family pictures, what you expect when you go to your session, location guides, stuff like that. Because my, at that time my market wasn't photographers, my market was clients. And what do clients want? What can I add value to their sessions? So having that consistent calendar helped me kind of figure out content and then, um, you know, be able to keep up with that schedule because if you're blogging clients three times a week, that gets hard, especially during the slower seasons or when you don't have enough content. But I think everyone can probably show one session a week. So I kept up with that.

Kylee: And now, um, my business says just like exploded from that, um, from SEO, from word of mouth. You know, once you grow like that you just grow and grow and grow and you don't stop growing. So now I actually don't do it all by myself. So every photographer that shoots the session has to write the blog posts, they have to write what the session was about and stuff. And then we have actually a member of our team that does all the collages, all the SEO, all the scheduling of the blog, and then she writes like the bright tips and the wedding tips and all those things for our brides. So I think once you get to a point where you're, you've, you know, blogged so much that it's working, you keep it up by outsourcing it.

Scott: Right. Yeah, that's good to do. Uh, you know, there, when I originally started this, this podcast, uh, I guess by the time that this episode airs is going to be about four years at this point, um, my cohost was Rachel who owned fotoskribe. Uh, and that's what she did. She, she was at a, a basically a ghost writer for photographers, which the company got acquired by shootout edit. Um, so, uh, it still exists. Um, so I completely agree that that uh, a great strategy, uh, the, you've got sort of this filler content, which is the, you know, the, this was this session and this was this wedding and you know, it's stuff that the, the pretty stuff that everybody's going to see and then you have the more strategic stuff, which is the how tos and the thing you know, what to wear and how to style and that stuff. Um, that is the stuff that's going to get you the leads more than the filler, the filler stuff. The filler is this there to fill. So,

Kylee: and it's evergreen content. So stuff that I blogged six years ago is still floating around Pinterest. I can reshare it with clients. I can send an emails. It's just like so valuable. Whereas that client stuff, it goes away after a week and you just posted the clients. So yeah, it's been, yeah, it's been great.

Scott: In fact, a strategy to potentially, I don't know if you do this, uh, now, but it's something to consider is um, SEO wise, you can actually edit the content that you posted five years ago and um, just modernize it a little bit, whether it's, you know, adding some new photos, changing some text, adding a new style, whatever, and then just change the date to now. And that is going to just help it go back up a little bit on Google because now Google is going to think it's new. Google likes the new content. Even though you're not changing the URL, you're not, you know, yapping, it's just gonna make it look fresh, not only to the people looking at it but to the so yes. Um, yeah. Um, and repenting, repenting of course. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that's something you get with wordpress, uh, by the way, and a plugin called WP to buffer pro. Make sure I put this in the show notes. Um, you can, uh, actually automate that completely. You can automate resharing your content through buffer to your social media, um, which is, which is a really nice thing. Um, so their thought was, you know, one thing you can't do and show it. Yeah. Yeah. Plugins are powerful. There's, you know, uh, you know, so, um, okay. Anything that you want to share before we close up the show?

Kylee: Um, I don't think so. Just I learned a lot about things. I mean, I know wordpress, I think there's a plugin for any everything. I'm like, Oh, I wish there was this, I searched for it and can find it. So I think, I guess my tip would be if you think wordpress is missing a feature, either ascot or search the plugins or annual fight that,

Scott: yeah, yeah. You can join the wordpress photography, uh, Facebook group that I started and asked there, there's a whole community is over 2000 people, uh, photographers that want to help other photographers do more with wordpress. So if anybody does have questions like that, you could email me direct. You can comment on this podcast episode, you can join the Facebook group and you'll get an answer that is for sure. Uh, so I want to thank you, Kylee for joining today. Uh, it's been, it's been a nice conversation. I, uh, was really looking forward to this one, so I'm glad we got it. That's fine.

Kylee: Thanks for having me. Yeah, that was super fun. So maybe if you get back to your blogging check, Norris will be in your town next week.

Scott: Yeah, yeah. Actually. So, um, eh, as a, just as a side note related to that, one of my big martial arts clients is actually a very big name in, in, in karate, just not like a movie star. Uh, but um, he actually is, um, there's a, there's a form of karate called Goji Guru, which was a Chinese and it's actually starting Okinawa with was, uh, brought to China. And then, uh, a guy from, it was in the u s military named Peter Urban. He went to China and he studied this. He was actually in China for the military. He studied, um, Goji Guru and then he came to the United States, started his own school. And my client, who is now, I think he's in his mid seventies, um, who still teaches, he was one of Peter Urban's first students. So the school that I attend, that I learned from, that I also photograph for, um, is four degrees from the original Okinawan style.

Kylee: That's amazing. That's cool. So, you know, some, some are martial arts where lt already.

Scott: Yeah, the, but, but it's the guys that you don't, it, you know, it's the guy you don't see. But, um, yeah, yeah. But anyway, it's on my website. Go to Scott and to search for a karate you'll see as a whole bunch of content with him and some of the other, um, karate guys. So, uh, you can find the show notes, uh, and where to find Kylee and to, uh, subscribe and we'll to places you can subscribe at 86. Don't forget to subscribe to this show on apple podcast, stitcher, Spotify, Google play, wherever you listen to podcasts. We're there. So until next time.

clean no 30:59 Scott Wyden Kivowitz
Episode 85 – Closing Out Season 3 Wed, 03 Jul 2019 10:45:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 85 clean no 4:19 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 84 – Do Good, Win $5,000 Thu, 20 Jun 2019 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 84 clean no 4:59 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 83 – Quick Saving Drafts & Reusable Blocks Thu, 06 Jun 2019 13:10:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 83 clean no 4:56 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 82 – The Perfect Google My Business Post Thu, 23 May 2019 13:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz clean no 4:56 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 81 – GDPR Outside of Europe Thu, 09 May 2019 13:30:30 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 81 clean no 4:12 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 80 – The Travel & Tour Photography Business with Kevin Wenning Thu, 25 Apr 2019 10:50:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 80 clean no 35:16 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 79 – Changing Categories (and Tags) in Bulk Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:30:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 79 clean no 4:25 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 78 – Sensual Photos Dreamy Site with Molly Marie Keyser Thu, 28 Mar 2019 12:40:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 78 clean no 30:19 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 77 – Block Editor Workflow Tips Thu, 14 Mar 2019 13:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 77 clean no 8:30 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 76 – Branding Your Photography Business with Keith Stoeckeler Thu, 28 Feb 2019 14:00:36 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 76 clean no 28:26 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 75 – Keyboard Shortcuts For Your WordPress Workflow Thu, 14 Feb 2019 14:00:29 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz clean no 4:08 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 74 – Diagnosing Broken Previews in WordPress Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 74 clean no 4:27 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 73 – Massive Brand Shift w/ Mike Allebach Thu, 17 Jan 2019 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 73 clean no 35:34 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 72 – What’s In Store For 2019? Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:50:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 72 clean no 13:45 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 71 – Sticky Clients, Like Glue w/ Nate Grahek Thu, 20 Dec 2018 14:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 71 clean no 59:28 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 70 – Install Gutenberg Right Now Thu, 06 Dec 2018 13:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 70 clean no 8:52 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 69 – Being Thankful and Thinking About 2019 Wed, 21 Nov 2018 15:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 69 clean no 4:06 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 68 – Making Client Onboarding Awesome w/ Latoya Dixon Smith Thu, 08 Nov 2018 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 68 clean no 34:32 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 67 – This Is Season 3 Thu, 25 Oct 2018 14:00:50 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 67 clean no 5:45 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 66 – Personal Brand Photography w/ Jamie Swanson Thu, 16 Aug 2018 11:30:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 66 clean no 39:20 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 65 – Optins & Mobile SEO Thu, 02 Aug 2018 14:00:06 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 65 clean no 4:05 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 64 – Outsourcing Blogging & Newsletters w/ Beth Teutschmann Thu, 19 Jul 2018 13:00:38 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 64 clean no 39:30 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 63 – SEO Bootcamp for Photographers w/ Brandon Hopper Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:00:09 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 63 clean no 16:14 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 62 – Is Facebook Sharing The Wrong Image? Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:00:10 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 62 clean no 8:32 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 61 – Important Yoast SEO Patch for a Ranking Bug Thu, 07 Jun 2018 13:00:11 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 61 clean no 8:53 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 60 – Celebrating the WordPress 15th Anniversary w/ Christine Tremoulet Thu, 24 May 2018 13:00:14 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 60 clean no 25:18 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 59 – A Rock And A Hard Place Thu, 10 May 2018 13:20:34 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 59 clean no 6:19 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 58 – Nurturing With Personalized Videos w/ Julie Christie Thu, 26 Apr 2018 13:00:31 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 58 clean no 37:15 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 57 – Sell With Your Photography Website w/ The Blumes Thu, 12 Apr 2018 13:00:29 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 57 clean no 39:38 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 56 – Virtual In-Person Sales w/ Chris Scott Thu, 29 Mar 2018 12:00:37 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 56 clean no 42:58 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 55 – A WordPress Customizer Productivity Tip Thu, 15 Mar 2018 13:00:46 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 55 clean no 2:28 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 54 – Blogging Advice for Photographers w/ Esther de Boer Thu, 01 Mar 2018 14:00:42 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 54 clean no 33:54 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 53 – You Need An Email List Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:00:45 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 53 clean no 4:22 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 52 – Image Optimization for Site Speed Thu, 01 Feb 2018 14:00:58 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 52 clean no 14:31 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 51 – Is Content The Word of 2018? w/ Kim Doyal Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:00:43 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 51 clean no 42:47 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 50 – Don’t Drop The Ball Thu, 04 Jan 2018 12:00:11 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 50 clean no 2:15 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 49 – Automating Lead & Client Nurturing w/ Mailchimp Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:00:56 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 49 clean no 12:33 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 48 – Street Photography Website Essentials w/ Valerie Jardin Thu, 30 Nov 2017 12:00:58 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 48 clean no 33:17 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 47 – Elementor’s Blank Canvas Template Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 47 clean no 3:03 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 46 – Know Your Audience w/ Ugo Cei Thu, 02 Nov 2017 11:00:35 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz full 46 clean no 35:17 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 45 – Why photographers should use push notifications Thu, 19 Oct 2017 11:00:46 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 45 clean no 4:43 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 44 – One Stop Shop for Support & Maintenance w/ Brandon Hopper Thu, 05 Oct 2017 11:00:21 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 44 clean no 27:04 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 43 – Finding Content Ideas Through Inspiration w/ Marc Silber Thu, 21 Sep 2017 11:00:34 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 43 clean no 40:34 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 42 – Live from Out of Chicago Photography Conference w/ Charlie Clemmer Thu, 07 Sep 2017 11:00:29 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 42 clean no 20:45 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 41 – The Future & Feedback Thu, 01 Jun 2017 11:00:26 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 41 clean no 10:28 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 40 – WordPress Photography Q&A Volume 4 Thu, 18 May 2017 11:00:56 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 40 clean no 19:01 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 39 – Expectations & Consistency In Your Branding w/ Bryan Caporicci Thu, 04 May 2017 11:00:52 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 39 clean no 37:58 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 38 – Engaging Video for your Photography Website w/ Daniel Usenko Thu, 20 Apr 2017 11:00:50 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 38 clean no 39:21 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 37 – Marketing Evolves So Evolve With It w/ Rosh Sillars Thu, 06 Apr 2017 11:00:15 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 37 clean no 35:42 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 36 – The Importance of Branding & Consistency w/ Lena Hyde Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:00:27 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 36 clean no 34:07 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 35 – Why CoSchedule should be installed on every photography website Thu, 09 Mar 2017 12:00:45 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 35 clean no 5:05 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 34 – ShootDotEdit Acquires Fotoskribe, and What It Means for Photographers Thu, 23 Feb 2017 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 34 clean no 47:59 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 33 – WordPress Misconceptions & Confusions Thu, 02 Feb 2017 12:00:20 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 33 clean no 37:34 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 32 – Photography SEO in 2017 w/ Corey Potter Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 32 clean no 56:03 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 31 – Photography Business Resources for 2017 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 12:00:19 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 31 clean no 48:38 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 30 – WordPress Photography Q&A Volume 3 Thu, 22 Dec 2016 12:00:03 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 31 clean no 53:50 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 29 – Content Management For Your Photos w/ Angela Bowman Thu, 08 Dec 2016 12:00:20 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 29 clean no 57:14 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 28 – Do The Work First w/ Seshu Thu, 24 Nov 2016 12:00:31 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 28 clean no 56:10 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 27 – Your Future Self Will Thank You w/ Twyla Lapointe Thu, 10 Nov 2016 12:00:56 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 27 clean no 54:14 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 26 – Outsourcing Website Tasks In Your Photo Business w/ Chris Aram Thu, 27 Oct 2016 11:00:05 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 26 clean no 42:32 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 25 – How to find content to blog about Thu, 13 Oct 2016 11:00:46 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 25 clean no 2:33 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 24 – Start Slow To Build The Skill w/ Nathan Ellering of CoSchedule Thu, 29 Sep 2016 11:00:27 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 24 clean no 49:13 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 23 – Add A Narrative To The Image w/ Don Komarechka Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:00:13 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 23 clean no 48:15 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 22 – Remove Business Paralysis, Be Persistent, Be Unique & Work Hard w/ Jasser Abu-Giemi Thu, 01 Sep 2016 11:00:50 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 22 clean no 45:51 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 21 – Keep Them Coming Back To Your Site w/ Nancy Nardi Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:00:24 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 21 clean no 43:01 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 20 – WordPress Photography Q&A Volume 2 Thu, 04 Aug 2016 11:00:29 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 20 clean no 55:09 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 19 – Building A Photography Resource & Community w/ A.D. Wheeler Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:00:53 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 19 clean no 56:44 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 18 – Some Things Are Simpler With Page Builders w/ Robby McCullough Thu, 07 Jul 2016 11:00:22 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 18 clean no 57:15 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 17 – Outsourcing, Work Life Balance & The 3 To 1 w/ Rachel Brenke Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:00:59 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 17 clean no 46:00 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 16 – Don’t Be Lackadaisical About Your Security w/ Brian Matiash Thu, 09 Jun 2016 11:00:51 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 16 clean no 59:29 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 15 – Stop Slowing Down Your Site With Huge Images, Or Too Many w/ Mark Allen Thu, 26 May 2016 11:00:10 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 15 clean no 47:45 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 14 – Think About Your Content First w/ Aaron Hockley Thu, 12 May 2016 11:00:00 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 14 clean no 50:50 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 13 – Goodbye Squarespace Hello WordPress w/ Anna Sawin Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:00:26 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 13 clean no 47:56 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 12 – Be A Meticulous Entrepreneur w/ Colby Brown Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:00:07 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 12 clean no 45:05 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 11 – Content That Travels With You w/ Andrew Funderburg Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:00:44 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 11 clean no 47:04 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 10 – WordPress Photography Q&A Volume 1 Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:00:57 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 10 clean no 50:57 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 9 – Keep Refining, It’s A Constant Process w/ Chamira Young Thu, 03 Mar 2016 12:00:05 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 9 clean no 42:13 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 8 – Just Do It And Fail Through It w/ Blake Rudis Thu, 18 Feb 2016 14:00:57 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 8 clean no 54:05 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 7 – The 80/20 Rule In Photography And Websites w/ Jake McCluskey Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:00:44 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 7 clean no 42:05 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 6 – Website Structure & Content Marketing w/ Bryan Caporicci Thu, 21 Jan 2016 14:00:13 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 6 clean no 53:56 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 5 – Wedding Photographer Websites on WordPress w/ The Youngrens Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:00:24 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 5 clean no 44:33 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 4 – Outsourcing In A Photography Business w/ Jared Bauman Thu, 24 Dec 2015 15:00:17 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 4 clean no 42:41 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 3 – WordPress is 25% of Websites, Yet Squarespace? w/ Tamara Lackey Thu, 17 Dec 2015 15:00:13 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz 3 clean no 58:37 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 2 – Photographer to Full Time Blogger & Consultant w/ Christine Tremoulet Thu, 10 Dec 2015 15:00:48 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Ambassador 2 clean no 56:38 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Episode 1 – The WordPress Photography Podcast Thu, 03 Dec 2015 15:00:22 +0000 Scott Wyden Kivowitz Ambassador 1 clean no 34:57 Scott Wyden Kivowitz