Episode 113 – Pivot and Shift with Rachel Brenke

Episode 113 – Pivot and Shift with Rachel Brenke

 
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Rachel Brenke is an author, photographer, lawyer, and business consultant for photographers and bloggers.

Rachel Brenke is an author, photographer, lawyer, and business consultant for photographers and bloggers.

She is currently helping creative industry and blogging professionals all over the world initiate, strategize, and implement strategic business and marketing plans through various mediums of consulting resources and legal direction.

The legal advice Rachel provides in this episode comes from her experience as a lawyer, photographer, and photo educator. Her advice is incredible, however, although Rachel is a lawyer, she’s not your lawyer!  For specific legal advice for your photography business, please contact your lawyer.

What we discuss:

  • Can you share some of the general shifts you’ve seen in the photo industry?
  • How has your business been impacted?
  • How are you adapting to the changes?
  • What would you tell photographers in your situation?
  • How has this pandemic impacted the photography industry’s legal side?
  • Is there something you do for your health mentally, physically, or a combination, to cope with the stress that comes out of the pandemic?

Where to find Rachel:

Referenced Links:

Transcription:

Transcription was done by Rev.com, using their AI (artificial intellegence) generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar, and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video or listening to the episode.

Scott:
Welcome to episode one 13. My name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and today I'm joined by my guest, Rachel Frankie, my friend, Rachel, is the head attorney and photographer behind the law. Tog you have probably heard of the law tog. And if you haven't, well, why not? It's a legal resource for photographers and as an MBA business consultant, and multi-state licensed attorney, Rachel knows the ins and outs of what goes into running a photography business and how to legally protect yourself. Not only does, does Rachel have real world photography, entrepreneurship experience, but she combines this with her intellectual property, law and business knowledge to provide a one stop resource to help protect your photography business. And as a mom of five, yes, you heard that right. An army veteran spouse at a team USA athlete, because she's got nothing else to do, but to compete. She understands that life is busy and we don't have time to mess around. And this is another mini series episode of our pivot and shift series. Um, and we are going to sort of pivot and shift this from the photographer standpoint to the legal photography standpoint, um, because that is Rachel specialty. So, um, as you'll hear, she is not your attorney, that's her disclaimer. Um, but, uh, Rachel, it's nice to see you again.

Rachel:
Ooh man, pandemic, pivot and shift. That is like the title slogan, I think for 2020 pivot and shift. It's funny, you're doing this intro and I'm like, man, you need to do my intro for me everywhere. And that makes really impressive. I'm excited to chat pandemic and legal stuff. Cause it's been huge. I mean, we've been so busy at the law tog putting out resources, you know, doing stuff like this, just trying to get the right information into photographer's hands because this is, and I hate this phrase. We've heard it a billion times unprecedented times. Right. But it's real, especially when it comes to legal.

Scott:
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we're going to be digging into a bunch of, uh, questions that I have. Um, but to get the ball rolling. Can you share some of the general shifts that you've seen in the photo industry from your side

Rachel:
Specific to pandemic? Yes. Oh man. Um, well, so I, I always try to look for a silver lining in all things. So with pandemic, it has fueled many photographers to get their stuff together, to realize that their contracts either they didn't have contracts or the ones that they had were not good enough. Um, oftentimes people will DIY think that's good or they won't use one or they'll get one, but then never update it, you know, in order to, uh, capture the growth of their business. Cause that's the goal of business is to grow. And then when you have a problem, cause it's not, if it's when, I mean, look at this, like we had no control over pandemic and that is one of the big shifts I've seen is the mentality from, you know, I'm never going to pursue a client. So I don't care about contracts, which is not true because I hear that all the time people change their minds, but it's the shift in the mentality between, well, I'm probably not going to Sue a client or enforce my contract.

Rachel:
I'm at like a litigation type level to, Oh my gosh, things can happen in the world that I have no control over and it does impact me and I'm not protected. And you know, there's a variety of things within contracts that we'll dig in and talk about here. But that has been the big shift that I'm so proud of. So many photographers taking this step. It sucks that it took a pandemic for it to happen, but it's really gonna set many photographers who committed this time to going from reactive when pandemic started all these cancellations reschedules to now really taking a more proactive approach, which is really what I've always taught as, um, an attorney and as a photographer, being an entrepreneur myself, I don't want to be in the reactive state all the time, especially when it comes to legal stuff.

Scott:
Right? Yeah. A good example of, of legal issues that have come up that I've personally witnessed is, um, so I, we have friends that, uh, got married two weeks ago and the wedding was supposed to be in, uh, may actually. And it was postponed until beginning of September and it went from a 200 person wedding to a 20 person wedding. And in the process of re building the whole wedding plan, uh, they had to go through the venue contract and the photographer contract and the videographer contract and the DJ contract to figure out what they can, uh, reduce and change and, and whatnot. So, um, the venue legally because of the state's laws had to shrink the size. They, there was no choice about that, but they actually did refund a good chunk of the money that we're, you know, what was going to be paid and did get paid and, um, and adjusted everything inside the wedding.

Scott:
The photographer went to from multiple photographers to one, the videographer, the contract was canceled. They were able to do that. And the DJ cause they wanted to live stream it for everybody who couldn't come. The DJ had videographers on hand that could handle that stuff. The DJ handle the video work instead of having an actual videographer. Um, so the video stuff, isn't going to be a cinematic wedding video that you might get these days, it's going to be more of a standard, you know, cameras fixed in place, but there was somebody it and live streaming it and doing all that stuff. So, um, if contracts were not there who knows what would have happened, it would have been an utter mess. Right. Um, and they're, they're actually, they're a honeymoon was they did have a legal issue. They had to go back and forth and fight with, um, where their honeymoon was supposed to be Italy. And they legally, they couldn't even fly to Italy. The States won't allow it. So they had a fight with the, um, I think not only the airline, but also the, um, hotel or whatever they were staying at in Italy to cancel it all. And they wound up doing a week road trip to Maine instead and had a great time. But so yeah, contracts, um, kind of important thing.

Rachel:
That's the thing, even in pandemic, it just as in life in general. Cause I mean for here we had the restrictions of venues on, they were either shut down, they were limited. And so, you know, there's many couples that have decided, well, if I have to go from 200 to 20, I don't want to do it at all. Or we have people like your friends who are kind with, you know, good with adjusting. And so there's such a variety of situations that came out of pandemic that I think are really good lessons for photographers to learn, because these are still at the core of it. You may not have pandemic, but clients wanting to reschedule or not, or cancel or change things. What you learn now in pandemic in dealing with that will carry over after pandemics. So now's a really good time when you're forced to essentially not work as much, which I know sucks because that directly impacts money, but it's a really good time to learn those lessons of like, how do you want to respond?

Rachel:
Because the way that I always tell people and is exactly what you just outlined is, what do I do in this situation? Will we start with legal first once you know, what your legal position is? And so like in pandemic, that was, what is this? What are the States allowing, you know, as far as venue restrictions, am I allowed to shoot at all, then it also your contract. Once you have that foundation, that's when you can then sit back and go, what do I want for me? And what do I want to offer customer service wise? Cause one of the things with contracts is it's almost the minimum of what you can do. You can always go above and beyond it. You just can't take away from that. And I want y'all to kind of shift and pivot your mind to look at contracts in that way that it creates a structure that sets the expectations all in one place.

Rachel:
So hopefully there's no miscommunications, it governs if there's an issue, but it's the minimum that you have to do. So once you have that foundation, then you can decide if you want to offer customer service. And I, and I'm offering this here as a logical approach to it because I'm seeing in groups, you see such a variety of opinions. I mean, y'all, I'm in all the Facebook groups, I say y'all chat and talking legal stuff and cause it helps me to know what y'all need at the law talk. And I'm seeing a range of some people when they're receiving cancellations or reschedules for wedding. Well, let's take the example of like reschedules when you've paid a nonrefundable retainer. And I probably completely blew your list of questions here, but, um, you know, you'll have half of the group saying, no you're allowed to keep it. You'll have the other half going. You should be a person and refund it. And for me, I mean, all I care about in my advice to y'all is know that foundation of the legal foundation, what your place is, and then you can decide what's best for your business customer service wise.

Scott:
Fantastic. Yeah, you definitely blew some of my questions, but it's okay. Because, so, um, one of my questions was good was going to be, what would you tell photographers in this situation? And you're, you're basically telling them, you know, have this structures in place. Uh, now if only there was a place that somebody could go and, you know, easily get a nice template as a starting point, you know, um, plug plug. Um, so, so yeah, uh, Rachel has a wide range of, of contract templates, um, and is calling them a template, the right terminology, because that's how I look at it. But you may, you may be using a different terminology.

Rachel:
I mean, I used the terminology template. You have to consider a, we draft them from not just a legal standpoint, which we do because it's on general contract principles. So it's fairly good bones across the United States. Um, but it's also from the approach that I been an active photographer. So I know the type of questions I have a pulse on the industry. And so yeah, the template kind of doesn't do it justice because it also has that extra level. We're kind of unicorns, right? We have the legal side, plus the actor photographer, working knowledge side and can combine that. Um, and so we always, I use the word template, cause it's always best to obviously check for your state, which was super important during pandemic specifically because you have to look to very specific state regulations, not even just like, what are the shutdown, what are the venue restrictions and all of that, all of these orders that were flying everywhere, you know, that's all going to be state specific.

Rachel:
And that's another error I've seen in groups is when people just say, what should I do? And it's like, hold on, we got to step back and see what are you even legally required to do by these orders? But another thing, even contracts themselves, there's some very specific things that can be heavily governed by, um, state, for example, like late fees, those are heavily regulated. And so you want to make sure that your contracts in place to not exceed that, um, or at least so you can max the amount of late fee that you could charge on a client if you needed to where remember minimum, you have it in there. So if you need to charge it, you don't have to, you can always waive it for customer service, but you have to have it in order to do it. But it also has to be in line with state law. And so that's, that's one of those things we say template, because we still want you to make sure that you plug and play. We have all of the stuff in there. The bones are in there. You just need to make sure that what you're filling in is going to be applicable to your state.

Scott:
Right? And so somebody buys a, a template from you. Um, and now they have this general, um, just general contract, but they need to, to, to really, really it to their business and to their, their state, their location, wherever they are in the world. Um, do they hire a local lawyer or do, is there somebody on your team that they can hire to do that for them to, to really, to get, to get it even more?

Rachel:
Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. Cause that's the thing, even though we, like, we worked with a lot of photographers, everyone's business is different. Even within the templates, it's like a create your own story. If you do in person sales, there's a section you put in for that. If you only do online gallery sales, that kind of stuff. So we really try to cover as much as possible, but to your point, yeah, you would have to look locally. Um, I have my firm, which is separate from the law talk Eden law and we are, this is something I've been trying for years to try to serve. Um, the photography industry is really getting counsel that work with me. So they understand the photography industry. You're seeing the theme here. Like we are in a very unique type of industry. So to answer your question, you can look locally, but I would recommend like checking out to see who we have that already knows photography industry.

Rachel:
See if we can do your state, if we can't, I'll see if I can try to get a referral for you or I'll see who else in your local area photographer wise that could recommend you to an attorney. It just is super important. You find somebody that has intellectual property knowledge because we're different from other businesses in that we sell photographs, which is intellectual property. And that's beyond this episode, like I think that there's a whole host of copyright issues there. So just make sure you're really being clear on who you're using and the reason I'm harping on this is because I've seen a lot of messes that we've ended up cleaning up because people think anybody not just photographers think going to a lawyer is good enough. And that's not always, you might get a decent contract, but not really one that will serve you and serve your clients.

Scott:
Yeah. So just to specify a little bit on Eden law. So, um, Eden law is, is your law firm. You are a multi-state licensed attorney. So you, you know, the law for a lot of, a lot of States outside of where you specifically are, but Eden law, you have other attorneys who are also licensed. So, um, if you had to, just off the top of your head, take a guess of how many States do, do you think between you and your other attorneys? Um, how many States do you think you have covered?

Rachel:
Just think we have 14 and we're about to add four more. My goal is to get all 50, but what we did is we dug into, um, the law talk audience and all the requests that we were getting. And we started with the most popular state. So like Texas, California, Florida, New York, um, and that kind of stuff, we kind of went down the path. So some of the less popular States it'll probably be awhile before we get somebody, but I can, I still have networks. So I could still try to find someone, even though they wouldn't be with us.

Scott:
Great. Do you have a map feature on your, on the Eden loss site that, uh, you can click on your state and tells you who, which attorney in your office? Uh,

Rachel:
No. I don't have a map. We do have all of their pictures and where they're licensed, but I am sure that I could convince a web friend of mine to help them get on there.

Scott:
That'd be pretty cool. I, you know, I was thinking about it. It's kind of like a, um, there's a, there's a trader Joe's opening literally like around the block for me. Um, it, I think the end of next week it opened and every day I'm going to the traders Rose website, click on New Jersey. Seeing that one thing is when does the date going to show one or two? So anyway, um, so, um, you're not actively doing photography right now. You're still in the photo industry. You're still working with photography daily basis. How has your business been impacted from, you know, the, the, the law side of things? Um, how has your, uh, how has your business been impacted and what did you do to adapt to the change? I think if I recall you, you started another brand, um, right.

Rachel:
When am I not? Yeah, well actually I do still do a lot of business consulting. And with that has commercial photography. Ad-ons that has been primarily at a halt during pandemic for multiple reasons, one I'm high risk, and didn't really want to be going out to locations to do that, or offices were shut down. And then two also teaching from home, my kids are learning from home and that's a whole nother, but also because the legal side has been so busy. It's funny you asked this question. Cause I was thinking about that this morning that all of this goes in waves and I was thinking I'm normally used to there being a pop in the fall of business consulting and photography, just because people are starting to think about the beginning of the year. And I was debating, am I going to see that pop for that?

Rachel:
Uh, just because of pandemic. So we'll see. But yeah, legal has been, we've been the busiest we've been for many of the reasons we identify people are realizing that they need to get their stuff together, um, or they're actually having issues. And those are pretty about 50 50 when it comes to the contract side, copyright infringements, always huge. That's always happening. That's the biggest thing that we do at the law firm since we work with photographers so much, but yeah, um, law has been so busy and the good thing is I had already structured many of my businesses, uh, very virtual. And so while all my legal counterparts were running around like chickens with their head cut off, we just closed our front door of our physical office that we have downtown. And we already had all our infrastructure in our laptop. Like we already had facilitated this work, flexible work when you can type a mentality in our business, which I also carry over into like photography and all that sort of stuff. And so we didn't really feel a big crunch of that since we do a lot of federal copyright work with many of you photographers, we don't even see you anyways. Our office is really just to meet bar requirements. Um, we really meet by video like this.

Scott:
Right, right. Yeah. A lot of, uh, litigation these days and, um, and whatnot are being done through zoom calls and um, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's an interesting world. Um, you, you have, you have five kids at home that are, uh, doing homeschooling basically virtually. And, um, I'm assuming, um, your husband is also not going into the office. He's also at home.

Rachel:
He's also at home, but we're still like, he's on calls all day. I'm doing stuff like this. We actually don't have someone helping this morning. So I'm listening right now. Like making sure the kids aren't killing each other, which, you know, they're, they're pretty good. Um, it's we were talking about it before we got on here that I'm really enjoying this opportunity is frustrating, is trying to run your businesses and seeing a decline in areas. I hear, y'all trying to look at the silver lining and take the opportunity if you can, you know, like we're trying to do weekend trips with the kids or even during the week while they can still do virtual stuff on the road, just because it's so easy to fall into the trap of business. And I try to say outwardly all the time, if you follow me on social media, besides the legal stuff, is that busy-ness is not business, but it's so easy to fall into the trap, especially when you start getting overwhelmed of like, I got to do this legal stuff, I gotta do this. And so I'm really trying to make more of a conscious effort to slow down, um, during pandemic, which kind of forced it to in the first few months of warranty in any ways

Scott:
I was actually going to ask you if there's anything you wanted to, uh, any advice you wanted to tell photographers that were, um, you know, um, sort of unrelated to, to photography, unrelated to law, but just something to the silver lining. And I think that was a good, um, a good answer to a question. I didn't ask it. So I like it.

Rachel:
That is one thing that I've really been trying to encourage myself and others to do is while we have time and I use that loosely, it's really just adjusting a priorities right now it's finding something new. Um, and for me, I found something new personally, but I'm also, like you mentioned, I opened up a new brand, which is for lawyers because many lawyers don't even understand intellectual property stuff. Um, and that way I can I'm meeting the needs that I see and I can start growing another brand. And it gives me just a little change of pace here, but for the most part, I'm digging in with photographers and because everything is changing so much. I mean, we've kind of slowed down a little bit in that if y'all realize like in the beginning, was it like March when I know for us, our schools were shut down March, like our spring break. And then we were like full shutdown by beginning of April. And I feel like everything was fast and the furious ever changing. And now it's kind of like slowing down a bit as far as the orders and changes that was back then is really when I saw panic and photographers. So I'm hoping you guys are feeling a little bit better with your feet under you now.

Scott:
Right. Um, and earlier, a little while ago, you said, um, that you're like, you're the competition, your legal competition was running around with chick, you know, like with like chickens without their heads. Um, and now, even though you weren't for your business, now we're running around like chickens without heads because our kids are

Rachel:
Well. I was like, she got to do worksheets. I'm talking with Scott, we got to do with jeans

Scott:
Yesterday. I was recording a call and, um, my son was, was upstairs and he had a, a tantrum about something. And I'm like, this was a live stream actually. So there was a, it was a live webinar and live on YouTube. And I'm like, sorry for my son screaming upstairs.

Rachel:
Um, but you know, that's one thing that I've noticed is that I feel like there's a lot more grace for that type of environment now, like before, when, especially with photographers, when you're trying to do calls from home as many of home businesses you're trying to do in your kids or your family, your dogs, whatever's in the background, even though you try to hide like in a bathtub, which I've done many a times. And I feel like people are more, clients are more forgiving about it. Now, in fact, the other day, one of my dogs went nuts in the middle of a legal client call and the client, I was really embarrassed cause normally I put the dogs up and he afterward, I got the call, he was sending me pictures of his own dogs. And I was like, okay, that's cool. It was a good way to like connect. Not that I really want it to be like super noisy way of trying to roll in with it and trying to make the best of it.

Scott:
Yeah, yeah. Gotta do what you gotta do. Um, so I, I know, I know the answer to this, um, but not everybody knows you as well as I do. So I'm going to ask you a question that is, uh, the last question that I'm asking each guest in this series. And I feel like it's something that, um, is even more important now than ever because of the times that we live in. Is there something you do for health mentally, physically, or a combination to cope with the stress that comes out of the pandemic? Um, for me, the example that I use is that I train even harder in my karate classes because it's an incredible combination of both of those things. It's mental and physical. So what do you do,

Rachel:
Aye. So you kind of gave it away in the intro a little bit. I compete with, to USA for triathlons. And I also do iron man triathlons. This is like the first year I've never had a race like at all. And, um, frankly it's been kind of difficult for me to keep myself motivated. I have my own personal issues that happened beginning of the year plus pandemic plus being busy excuses, you know, but it, I did find that pandemic was really weighing on me more than I realized it was, you know, it's easy for me to sit here and say silver lining, blah, blah, blah. But I've really realized, I mean, we're, we're nine months into the year and I, my mileage is so low. Like if I had to race in a few weeks, I would die. There's no way I can do it.

Rachel:
Um, so I it's easy. Yeah. I sit here and say, I trained for triathlons, but it's been difficult because we can't use the pools. Um, I can ride my bike and run at home, but there's just no motivation there because every race keeps getting canceled. We don't even know what 20, 21 looks like. And so that's kinda like what I was mentioning. Try to find new things that you could, that's not necessarily an obligation. Um, you know, I'm also been wanting to learn to play violin and, um, nothing that's just for me. And so I bought a violin, asked me if I've tried it yet. No, but I made the steps. So normally I have something for me because I think it's easy as business owners, especially if you're in the first few years, cause I did this, uh, convincing herself and saying, well, business is for me, it's not for anyone else, but there becomes a point where even though you love it, you need something outside of business where it's not an obligation, especially if your family is financially dependent upon that. Um, but yeah, so long winded answer to your question, but triathlon,

Scott:
I like it. I like it. Um, you know, I I'm, I've got, uh, I've got, um, they call it basketball knee. Um, and, uh, I guess it's also runners in the, I guess it's the same thing. And um, when the pain, when the pandemic hit, let me and my karate classes when virtual, um, I have been around my inlaws, my both my, my father in law, my mother-in-law and my brother-in-law, um, on a regular basis. And both my brother in law, my father will also are in the karate school. And, um, I was on the cusp of before the pandemic hit on the cusp of testing for my next belt. And in our school, part of the test is fighting and both my brother in law, my father wore black belts and I'm not. Um, and for the first time, since 1974, when the school opened, um, we did a virtual test and they let me test and because I've been around my inlaws, um, I got to fight them in the, in my tests as well. So, and I lost of course, but, um, I passed the test, got my belt, but, um, but to, in preparation for that, I train harder than I ever have because it's a very hard test, um, what I had to go through. And, um, I actually did start running for the cardio aspect and made my knee worse cause, but I did it anyway, but, um, I can't, I can't run anymore. It just, it hurts. It hurts.

Rachel:
Well, that's my thing. I think it, it's, there's a big element of just getting outside, especially since we are so shut down. I mean, I, um, I had surgery a couple of weeks ago, so I can't run yet. So I've been walking, I mean like power walking and I'm out to go, you know, if the mall was open with a little, cause I'm making my time is dropping. Like I'm competitive with that, but it's really all about getting outside, getting the vitamin D and just having an escape from being in the four walls that can be wonders for productivity. And for clear mind when you're dealing with clients, et cetera.

Scott:
Yeah. Walking, even riding a bike, doesn't hurt my knee if you know, so like I love, I love doing that. Um, throw it, throw one of the kids in the, on the baby seat and just get going. Um, and we said, we actually started doing in person chronic classes on my father-in-law's lawn. And so a bunch of us have from, from the school gotten together, um, and to actually doing karate outside, which has been, has been fun and from a distance. But, um, so before we, uh, finish up, is there anything that, that you want to share? Any final notes you want to share with all the photographers watching, um, um, anything, anything related to

Rachel:
One of the things, you know, we kind of addressed the very beginning, was looking at your contract, seeing what you have. And I kind of wanted to give a quick little checklist that y'all can take and evaluate. And I'm really primarily talking about reacting to COBIT situations like cancels and reschedules. Then also setting yourself up for the future when stuff happens. Um, the big things that we're missing out of contracts that I saw obviously forced measure was thrown around a lot. Um, and it is a provision of the contract that allows for either one or both parties to cancel it due to extreme events. The problem is forced measure was so limited. Um, it was only really used for a very short period of time. It probably would not necessarily be used right now. Situations apply depends on where you live, what's going on. Um, having a proper cancellation and or reschedule provisions.

Rachel:
Those are ones that really been heavily used a lot during COVID, um, more than forced Missouri cause force Missouri may not always apply, but you still want to have it control when your clients were rescheduling canceling or you want to cancel or reschedule. Um, and then also COVID liability waivers. These are all over. And it's so funny because they're really intended for like, it's an assumption of risk that I'm going to engage in specific activity. And normally before these unprecedented times, it was used for high risk activities like skydiving, that kind of stuff, maybe adventure type photography, but they're commonplace. Um, in fact, I've been interviewed on so major large networks about this cause it's everywhere and you're basically signing it. When you go to get your nails done or you go, you know, those sorts of things that you wouldn't have thought about, and it's especially true for photographers.

Rachel:
But I think what the biggest takeaway out of those four big things is understand you still, as a photographer, have a responsibility to stay on top of knowing what the mandates and orders are, making sure your contracts are in place and making sure that you are saving top of safety precautions as well, following CDC type requirements, because we want to set it up just in case, you know, someone tries to say, my photographer gave me COVID, um, unless you knowingly showed up like at a wedding or dinner, photography session, knowing you had coven, um, you want to have all these other measures in place to kind of really insulate and protect yourself. Um, if you guys want more information on that, we have an entire COVID specific page at the law talk, but those are the big ones that you can get taken care of now for COVID, but also it will then be in place for in the future whenever this God forsaken pandemic ends.

Scott:
Awesome. Um, I'm going to make sure, um, get that link from you for that content. And I'll put that in the show notes as well. Um, so for everybody who's watching, listening, um, we had a bunch of Imagely, uh, community members asking about terms and service pages. And I just want to share that, uh, Rachel has agreed to write a guest post about terms and service, um, uh, and terms of conditions rather. Um, so stay tuned to the Imagely blog for that. Um, I don't know when it will be done, but when it's done it'll be live and I'll update the show notes with that link once that's live as well. Um, so, uh, thank you Rachel, for joining me today. I'm so glad you were able to join, uh, and be a part of this mini series, which is so important. Um, and, uh, so thanks for making this mini series even better.

Rachel:
Yeah, of course. I'm happy to finally chit chat since we've been all quarantine, no conferences, nothing. This was great. Y'all if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to reach out. My entire team can help. I can help them. We also have our community groups, so ask away no stupid questions. We'll get you the info.

Scott:
Can you share the absolute best place for everybody to find more information about you and your business

Rachel:
For photographers go directly to the law. talk.com. Everything we've talked about here is linked at the top, our community group. We have a start here page. So if you're just starting and figuring out the legalities of business, as well as our COVID page is linked right in the menu for there. So the law tog.com and com dig in, we happy to have you. Awesome.

Scott:
Thank you. You can find the show notes and where to find rachel@alltheplacesatimagely.com slash podcast slash one 13. Don't forget to subscribe to the show on Apple podcast, Spotify, Pandora, Google play, wherever you listen to the podcast. We are also submitting to Amazon music's podcast section. As soon as I'm able to, the link is broken right now from Amazon, but it will be there eventually until next time.

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