In the first episode of the WordPress Photography Podcast, Rachel and I discuss what the podcast is all about. We also share details on the structure of each episode.
Note: I made an oops with the video recording, and had Rachel selected nearly the entire time. So we have decided to leave the video out of the first episode. Sorry, folks. Stay tuned for Episode 2 where the video is ready to go!
- Scott Wyden Kivowitz - Imagely
- Rachel Conley - Fotoskribe
- Seriously Simple Podcasting
- WordPress Instant Articles
Scott: Welcome to the WordPress Photography Podcast. My name is Scott Wyden Kivowitz, and I am the community and blog wrangler and Imagely, as well as a freelance photographer about at New Jersey in the United States. I am joined by my co-host, Rachel Conley from Fotoskribe. Rachel will be joining me on as many episodes as possible as we speak to photographers and WordPress-ers around the world. Rachel, why don't we share a little bit about yourself right now.
Rachel: Thanks, Scott. I run Fotoskribe, a blogging service for photographers and was a photographer for years. I am passionate about WordPress, and I love helping photographers tell a story with their images.
Scott: Thanks, Rachel. Yeah, so this is going to be fun. We've been planning this for a while, so it's cool to kick it off. We're going to actually talk about how the podcast is going to work. This is actually just a little intro episodes, we're just going to talk about that, we're not going to have another guest on. Before we even get into that, let's talk about how you got into WordPress in the first place, why you love it so much. Why don't you start that off?
Rachel: All right. I used to work at MIT in CSAIL, which is the Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Lab Administration. I was learning wiki language; that was around the Wikipedia. I went downstairs to [these admins 00:01:25] and I said, you know, I want to start blogging. They looked at me, and they said, WordPress. It was at this moment where my whole life changed. It was like "WordPress." That was probably about ten years ago now, and I started blogging on personally and then I brought my business on it. Then I started working with other photographers, and I just realized how much potential, I mean you know this, how much potential WordPress has for everything that you need.
I don't know that photographers were ever using it to their full advantage. I started getting involved, I live in Boston and I got involved with the Boston and the Providence meetups, and started meeting WordPress people and just falling in love with the community which led me to start Fotoskribe because I envisioned a WordPress thing to start with which introduced me to the whole photography community and you guys over at Imagely, and that's been my life. WordPress is my life. How about you? How did you get introduced to it?
Scott: Yeah. Back when I was in college, I was a music major and then a photography major. I switched after about 2 years of being a music major. A one point I had to make a photography website for one of my assignments, and the professor was teaching us how to do in in Photoshop, and I'm like, "this is antiquated, why am I doing it this way." It's such a pain in the butt to do it this way. I started doing a little research and my brother, he was actually a college ... He's a couple years older than me. He was actually at a college up in North Jersey and he was a computer science major for a bit and he was into WordPress. He built a site off WordPress. I checked it out and saw how easy it was to use, and I built my first photography website for college, for this assignment on WordPress and blew everybody away because I didn't have to do it in photoshop.
Rachel: And encode it, yeah.
Scott: And encode it all. Since then, I started my first job working at one of the largest camera warranty companies now, a full electronic warranty company in the world that happens to be also in New Jersey. I was working there and at one point, I built a blog for them on WordPress. I had my own website, I had their blog and I just fell in love with WordPress and got absorbed because of just how much fun it is and how flexible it is and really how the possibilities are endless of what you can do with it.
Rachel: You live in Jersey?
Rachel: Being close to New York, have you been able to experience some of the New York City WordCamps community and stuff?
Scott: I've never attended any of the New York City meetups but my first ever WordCamp was WordCamp New York City. I love WordCamps after that. They are so much fun. It's great for WordCamps, for anybody who does not know what a WordCamp is. Basically, it's an official conference that is a non-profit, so just like WordPress, it's a non-profit, these conferences are actually full conferences with multi tracks of sessions of topics for beginners and developers and intermediates. Anybody who uses WordPress can go to a WordCamp and learn something or go to WordCamp and just talk to other people and network and do all these great things that you would normally do at a photography conference.
Rachel: Right. They're just like the photography conferences that I've been to, for sure.
Scott: I've been to New York City, I've been to Philly, I've been to Boston, and actually, now we're recording this on December 2nd, on Friday, I'm going to Philadelphia for WordCamp US.
Rachel: I know. I'm so excited to hear. I wanted to go so bad, but it just wasn't [inaudible 00:05:30]
Scott: Again, for anybody who doesn't know what a WordCamp is, WordCamps, there's pretty much one almost in every state, I would say. I don't know exactly how many. Then, all over the world. They're happening every week. There's 2 or 3 every week all over the world. Again, these are non-profits. You're paying to get in but you're donating to the WordPress Foundation, and you're walking away with a little goodies bag usually in addition to access to all these sessions and blog, and stuff like that.
Up until this year, up until 2015, there was what was called WordCamp San Francisco, which was the largest Matt Mullenweg, the original developer of WordPress, where he did his big keynote, which is The State of the Word. We're going to talk; I think the next episode, we're going to talk a little bit about that.
Rachel: With Christine.
Rachel: She knew Matt back in the day.
Scott: This year, WordCamp San Francisco, Matt decided to start the initiative to make it travel. Matt is a nomad, I think his home base is technically San Francisco or Texas, I can't remember. He's a nomad. He just travels nonstop. WordCamp San Francisco is now converted into WordCamp US, just traveling around the US. Once a year, it's going to be in a different place, and Matt's going to do his big keynote. This year, it's actually in Philadelphia.
Rachel: They're doing it two years in one place, so it will be in Philadelphia for two years because the thinking is they learned so much the first year, and then they implement it the second year, and then they move on to a new city. It will be exciting to see really. The whole major WordPress community is coming together in Philadelphia for this. This is the first time where it has been [piece meal 00:07:22] at these individual conferences but everybody is going to be in one place.
Scott: Usually, WordCamps are about 200 to 300 people, maybe 400 people or something larger once. How many were in Boston?
Rachel: We had about 200 to 300. Miami's huge, Miami gets, I don't know exactly, but I think it's upward to 500. Again, San Francisco was always huge. There are certain ones that are huge.
Scott: Yeah, WordCamp San Francisco or now what's called WordCamp US has 2000 attendees. It's much large. There's more sessions, there's larger rooms, there's going to be more vendors to having tables, to talk to people and give away swag. That kind of fun stuff. It's going to be really neat. I'm really excited to ... It'll be my first of that kind, the big one, that I'm going to. I'm really excited for that.
Rachel: Yeah. We should mention that WordPress is built on open source. This community of giving and non-profit is really at the core of what WordPress is, which I think is why I love it so much. That can be where the confusion lies. That's where photographers may not know where to go for resources because the term WordPress is used all over the place. Which is part of why WordPress US is so important because all these people who work on WordPress [core 00:08:47] are coming together for really the first time in a lot of cases to the same location, because everything is so distributed usually.
Scott: Yeah, for sure. Imagely is ... There's not one person in the same area really at our company. We have nine people and just scattered across the world.
Rachel: Yeah. I think that's the future of work. There's actually a book called The Year Without Pants, and it's written by Scott Berkun, and he talks about WordPress and their community of having distributed workplaces. Having teams that are, someone can be in Australia and someone can be in California, and someone can be in Ireland, and they're all in one team. I think that there's some benefit for photographers, because usually we're all solo-preneurs, and we are at home by ourselves, that distributed model, I think it's helpful for us too to make friends with photographers in other areas and then have Skype chats or Google Hangouts, so feel like you're not so alone.
Scott: Without a doubt. Then, you can easily network with other photographers around the world and even do referrals and potentially get commissions from the referrals if [inaudible 00:10:00]
Rachel: Absolutely, yeah.
Scott: Let's talk about why you, listener, are listening now.
Scott: Yeah, and why we hope, Rachel, I hope that you listen in the future.
Scott: This podcast is dedicated overall to photographers who want to learn more about WordPress. Each episode is going to have education or photographers that want to learn more about WordPress with the goal of making easier to digest. WordPress is known for being difficult and confusing. Rachel and I are going to say it's not, but we've been using it for a very long time. The goal here in this podcast is to make it easier for you to digest, to understand and to navigate. Most episodes, we're going to have a guest to talk with. They're going to talk about why they're using WordPress, how they're using WordPress, and our hope, and this is a great line for me, our hope is to translate [geek 00:11:04] to photographers.
Rachel: Scott and I talk [geek 00:11:07] all the time. Sometimes too much for normal people. We hope to help translate what you make the experience. The guests that we're interviewing are from the photography industry. They're not necessarily from the WordPress industry. Although, we hope to get some people, yeah, definitely. What we're hoping is that our guests will have the same kind of questions that you may have in terms of "well this is what I thought WordPress was and it turned out to be this" and how do you make that translation and having a discussion about it. I think there is a lot of questions like that, that everybody has. I mean, even Scott and I have, when new things come out, we have to go explore and find and figure it out. We want to help you do that without doing all that extra work.
Scott: Yeah, totally. Each episode is going to follow the structure. We anticipate capping the time at 45 minutes each. Some might be less, some might be a little longer, depending on the conversation, what the guest brings to the table. We will see what happens with each episode, but we're going to try to cap it at 45 minutes. The way each episode is going to work is not going to like this intro episode. It's going to have more of a structure. The structure is basically going to be the introduction to the podcast which I did the introduction, but we'll do that for each episode. An introduction to the guest. Our first guest is going to Christine Treble. We're actually recording episode 2 tomorrow, which I'm very excited for.
Then, we're going to get into a WordPress or photography related topic. This will be anything in the WordPress industry related to photography or WordPress that just works for everybody including photographers, or if there's no big WordPress news, we'll talk about something in the photography industry that is worthwhile and connected to the podcast.
We'll then talk about what's new with the guest. We'll see what's going with their career. What they're doing photography-wise or side projects, anything like that. How the guest is utilizing WordPress, I mentioned that before. We're going to talk about how they're using it, are they using it for education, are they using it for their portfolio, to sell their books, to sell presets, are they using it, whatever. What theme are they using? What plugins are they using and things like that.
Rachel: Some of our guests use hybrid. Some of our guests use WordPress in conjunction with other products, web products. We'll ask [online 00:13:42]. We'll talk about the pros and cons. I think that part is going to be the best part. What's different with every guest, how they use WordPress. I'm expecting that you and I are going to learn a lot from that too. I don't know; I'm excited.
Scott: Yeah, for example, tomorrow when we record this, these episodes are not going to be published today and tomorrow, it's going to be published once Imagely launches. Tomorrow, when we're talking with Christine, she does consulting for both WordPress and SquareSpace. That will be an interesting topic to learn more about SquareSpace. One of the beautiful things about this podcast is we're not preventing the discussions from talking about competing software, competing plugins, competing theme, competing hosting, we're going to allow the conversation to go wherever it goes. That's going along the lines with the WordPress community.
Rachel: The open source mentality. We want to be a resource to all photographers to help them understand what's out there. Not judging in a way, because there are situations where SquareSpace may be more applicable to a person than WordPress. We'll assess that out and see if we can help figure out what those differentiators are.
Scott: After we talk about how the guest utilizes WordPress, we'll talk about some potential WordPress topic most likely related to wherever the discussion goes. If it does go into why they're SquareSpace and WordPress, we'll talk about that. Then, a fun one is we're going to try to get a theme or plugin recommendation from every guest. That's going to be exciting because Rachel and I might hear about a theme or plug we've never heard, and then we get to check it out.
Rachel: I feel like people know what's in their regional area. They get recommendations in a national arena. They get recommendations that I'm excited to have it all come into one place and be a repository. See what keeps coming up and what comes up over and over and over, like the Yoast SEO plugin, I'm sure we're going to get it out of the bat. I'm excited.
Scott: Just as an example, I was recently browsing on a Facebook group and came across a plugin called Instant Articles, and I've been testing it. It's pretty interesting; it's very geeky for a plugin. It's not something that the average photographer would look for. It's something that is very beneficial to a photography website because all it does is speedup the transition from one blog post to another.
Scott: If somebody is viewing a blog post on a mobile phone or wherever, the website's loading faster. That's beneficial not only for photographers but everybody. Interesting plugin. I'm still in testing with it, so I don't know if the results are worth using this plugin, but we'll see.
Rachel: Yeah, and we should mention JPEGmini, which you put me on. It's a great resource for photographers who are looking to resize some of their images. They create a JPEGs in either [BlogStamp 00:16:55], eFundi or Photoshop or Lightroom for their blog. What I love about JPEGmini is just you throw that in there, it smooshes it down as much as it possibly can which just speeds up your blog site. These tools just help speed up your site and get your potential clients to see things even faster. Even Google, the faster your site is, the more Google likes you.
Scott: Indeed. That's for sure.
Scott: After the recommendation, we'll get some final thoughts from us and also the guest, and then we'll just do a closing, and that's about it. Yeah, each episode's going to have this structure, and it will be a lot of fun to change up and adjust, and whatnot. Here's the cool part, because the podcast is driven by WordPress ...
Rachel: Of course.
Scott: Of course. The publish episode page will have an area to ask questions and gather feedback for future episodes, just like you would on your blog. It's cool because at the end of the episode I'll say, "hey, you can subscribe or check out the show notes at," this one will be imagely.com/podcast/1. You can go to that page and listen, watch, read the transcription, see the show notes, any links that we mentioned. For example, some articles in JPEGmini. Then, you can also comment like you could in any of the blogposts with feedback or questions that you have that we can then bring into the next episode or future episodes.
Rachel: Yeah, and we really do want to hear from you because I've always lived by the [inaudible 00:18:37] that no question is a stupid question. If one person asks it, there's probably 3 people out there at least that are thinking the same thing. If you have a question you've always thought, "why does WordPress do this, but I've never wanted to ask because I didn't want to sound silly," ask us. Believe me, we've asked, I've done it at least, ask the silly questions and help to get a complete picture about WordPress and how photographers can utilize it the best. Ask us anything. Well, not anything but anything abut WordPress or photography.
Scott: As we said, you're listening to episode 1 of the WordPress Photography Podcast which has no guests, it's just us.
Rachel: We're fun.
Scott: Yeah, for those listening, I just gave a double thumbs up. For those watching, [inaudible 00:19:25] This podcast is dedicated to the podcast itself, with this episode, I should say. It's a way for us to share he more nerdy side and the behind-the-scenes of how we're creating this podcast and delivering it to your ears. Also, to gather feedback on what you, the listener, would like to hear. This episode might sound a little more technical that what future episodes would be like, but we hope you enjoyed the behind-the-scenes discussion anyway. Yes. We think it's important to share how we plan on doing this thing we're calling a podcast.
Rachel: Yes. If you want to start your own, because maybe your wedding photography client will want to listen to you talk about weddings, podcasts are the newest things, we believe that.
Scott: I do wonder how many wedding photographers are doing a podcast for clients. If they're not, why?
Rachel: Yeah. Why not?
Scott: That might be something that when we get Bryan Caporicci on, he'd be a good person to talk to about that. For those who don't know Bryan Caporicci, he runs the Sprouting Photographer Podcast. It's one of my top 3 personal favorite photography podcast.
Rachel: It's one of my top favorite podcast, period. Now, he's got it on iTunes and has revolutionized how photographers listen to podcasts, which is we're piggy backing on that, but don't worry, he knows. We told him.
Scott: He's very excited to be a guest as well. It'll be great. We should make a note that that's a topic we should bring up when we speak to him.
Rachel: We've both been a guest on his podcast.
Scott: We wanted to make sure that we share and educate how we are using WordPress to drive the podcast. For anybody listening who is interested in making a podcast for either the photography industry, in general, the WordPress industry or for your client, for your photography clients, here's what we're doing. Each episode is recorded via a Google Hangout On Air. We do that because on air, [inaudible 00:21:35] Google Hangouts, can record a conversation without any additional software. You can then send it to YouTube, unlisted, automatically, so it's not public right away, but you can then download it, do some edits if you want, reupload it, whatever.
Rachel: Yeah, but if you're a girl, you have to get ready and ... Scott didn't spend as much time as I did getting ready.
Scott: I did shave my head just in preparation for this.
Scott: As a backup, so if in case Google hangouts failed to deliver for any given episode, I have a software called Skype Call Recorder, which once I launch Skype, this pops up, and I can record an audio or video conversation at any time just through Skype. We have that as a backup. Of course, there's other backups that we could do as well on top of that if we needed to. Those are the main two that we're going to be using. Google Hangout On Air is number 1 just for the ease of use. Then Skype Call Recorder as a backup.
Rachel: I have to say, Skype Call Recorder is great if you're having Skype calls with your clients and you tell them that you want to record it. It's a great way to remember things that you might have talked about, so you don't have to be keeping notes while you're having client meetings. As photographers, if you're talking to a family client or a wedding client, the Skype Call Recorder is great just to be able to say, "listen, I'm going to record this, we're going to have a conversation, and that way I can go back and keep all the notes." It's not just used for podcast, you can use it in your client work too.
Scott: Yeah, totally. Each episode will be recorded, downloaded, converted into an MP3. The intro and outro clip will be added. We then send the MP3 off to Rev.com who will be doing the complete transcription of every episode. That means, when you go to Imagely.com/podcast/1 to listen to this episode, you can listen to the audio, you could watch the video, you could read the conversation in the comments about the episode. You can visit the mentioned sites, you can comment with questions, comment with feedback and do it all. You can read the transcription of the entire show, this entire episode. You can read the transcription of what I said or what Rachel said.
Rachel: Rev.com is another great resource. Again, we're just telling you what we use in our daily lives, but rev.com is like if you are writing a blog post and you talk into your phone, rev.com will transcribe it for you. Again, there are multiple uses in your photography business for some of these tools.
Scott: In fact, I just had an idea for a new book of mine that I'm working on now. The idea is to do this big book but then the beginning, right after the introduction to the book, is actually a mini-book that I will be able to sell separate as well. I'll have it included in the big book and sell separate as a smaller book. That mini section, that mini-book is actually from a video that I recorded a while back. I sent it off to Rev, had them transcribe it and that mini-book is done. I didn't do anything.
Rachel: That's awesome.
Scott: Yeah. Rev has a lot of great usefulness, so I don't have to go ahead and rewrite what I already recorded when I was doing it, sort of, improv at the time of the recording. I now have in writing; I just adjusted the transcription to more of a book style from just spoken word.
Rachel: Yeah. Photographers are such visual people, I mean you and I are that so we want to get our communications out but sometimes the writing part of it is tough. There are a lot of tools to help you where if you are better at speaking and then getting that speaking stuff into word, that's just one we use.
Scott: The podcast then hosted on Imagely.com and used the WordPress plugin Seriously Simple Podcasting. There are 2 of the most popular podcasting plugins out there. One I think is called PowerPress, and the other is Seriously Simple Podcasting. We went with Seriously Simple Podcasting because we don't need all the advanced features that come with the other one. We just needed something seriously simple. Now the developer of the Seriously Simple plugin happens also to work for WooThemes, who got acquired by Automattic who is the main developers behind WordPress. Now, this person also works at Automattic.
Rachel: Which is the mother ship of WordPress, we call it.
Scott: Also, Automattic is the company that is owned by Matt Mullenweg, who originally developed WordPress.
Rachel: We should probably stop and tell the difference between wordpress.com and wordpress.org. Automattic owns WordPress.com, which is that runs the Jetpack plugin that you might have on your wordpress.org blog or website. WordPress.org is the open source that we were talking about earlier. That's the one that you download on your web host. The great thing about Imagely, and we should talk a little bit about what Imagely is going to be, is that it's going to be a self-hosted. You'll have that wordpress.org blog on an Imagely-hosted platform. Scott, you probably can talk a little bit more about this if you want.
Scott: Yeah. Basically the way it works is typically with the WordPress site or wordpress.org site, you would either have a host and you'd have to install WordPress or you would go to a host and use their one-click install and install [word 00:27:13]. Either way, it's fairly simple to install WordPress. The way Imagely works is you would go sign up, if you have a domain, you can connect your domain already. Otherwise, you would buy the domain through Imagely, and then actually we will install WordPress for you, [free 00:27:29] package with all themes and plugins that you would need for a photography website right off the bat. It's good reason.
Rachel: I'm excited for Imagely. It's going to be a game changer. The difference between wordpress.org which is hosted on sites like Imagely or GoDaddy or Blue Hosters, SiteGround. Then there's wordpress.com. This is when Automattic, you can buy a blog on wordpress.com, you can have a free blog on wordpress.com. What happens is you don't have the control over it as you do with the wordpress.org. We'll be talking a lot about the difference between .com and .org, I anticipate in the future. It's a big distinction, and there's a lot of confusion about it. Automattic owns WordPress.com, and they also have a lot of people involved that contribute core to wordpress.org. Automattic is, again, the mother ship for all things WordPress.
Scott: That's for sure. One of the things that I like about this Seriously Simple Podcasting plugin is that's going to make it easy for each episode also to show up in a blog post. For people who either missed the URL for the episode or just want to go to the site and just find it, they can just go to the blog and look for the most recent podcast episode.
Rachel: Now, this blog will be hosted on the Imagely site. That's what you mean when you say find the blog, right?
Scott: Imagely.com, yeah. In addition are [assess 00:28:57] feed for people who want to subscribe wherever they listen to, that will be available. I personally use an app on my Mac, my iPad and my iPhone called Downcast. Using iCloud to sync, it allows me to sync what podcast I'm subscribed to, what I've listened to, where I stopped listening, where I paused it, where I've skipped ahead, all that stuff very easily using Downcast. I know, Rachel, you don't need that.
Rachel: I go the old fashioned way. I still use the iTunes. I'm constantly amazed at people that ... Because I love the podcast, and I listen to quite a few of them, but I do it the old fashioned way on iTunes. People that don't even know where to find it on iTunes but I am going to check out the Downcast app because the ability to sync on different ... I mean, I usually listen on my phone. Do you listen on different things all the time?
Scott: Yeah. I mean, if I'm at the computer there's no reason for me to listen from the phone when my computer speakers are a little bit better. Yeah, I do that. Depending, for example if I was going to New York City and I'm sitting on a bus to New York City and I have my iPad, I'll listen to the iPad so I'm not wasting my iPhone's battery.
Rachel: No, that's true. I'm at the point where I'm in the car most of the time because I don't live in Boston anymore, we're out in the suburbs now, oh my goodness. I'm usually in my car listening to it on iTunes. Again, when I'm at my computer, I listen to it even on my phone but yeah, I'm going to check out Downcast. There are other places to find it. You can find it on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher. What other ones do you know about?
Scott: Those are the three most popular, of course. Google play is new for a podcast, but those are the three most popular. We're going to submit to all 3 and potentially other popular ones that are brought to our attention. If there's one that you listen to, if you have feedback as to where you listen to a podcast, like podcasting services, let us know.
Rachel: Let us know, please.
Scott: Comment on the show, episode. Imagely.com/podcast/1 and let us know where you listen, and we'll try to get it there. If it's something like what Downcast is, you can either search iTunes with this iTunes Library within the app, or you can just add the RSS feed and automatically, they'll pull it in for you.
Rachel: Great. In the RSS feed, you could find on the Imagely site. That's part of the plugin that you were talking about, right?
Scott: Yeah, so it will be displayed with that plugin, and we'll also have some others and we'll have the ability to subscribe.
Scott: Show it on the site.
Rachel: We're making it as easy as possible for you guys to listen.
Scott: Yes, without a doubt. Listen, watch, read, whatever. One of the things that I see come up a lot in the photo industry, especially in education, a lot of people put these courses together and then when people buy it, they're wondering why there's no transcription because they're either hard of hearing, they're whatever.
Rachel: Or they just don't want to listen. They'd rather read. I know when my son's asleep, I'd rather read something than watch a video of it. That's why we wanted to offer that transcription part of it, right?
Scott: Yup. Transcription's very important for that. In the next few episodes we have scheduled, we've got some cool, great guests. Entrepreneurs who are well known in the photo industry and learning how they use WordPress to power their businesses and their online sites, whatever. The guests we have scheduled right now for episode 2, Christine Treble. For episode 3, Tamara Lackey. Then, in the future, we're going to have people like Jared Platt, Colby Brown, Brian Matiash. People like Blake Rudis, Bryan Caporicci, yeah we're going to have lots of great people. Possibly, hopefully, Jared Bauman from ShootDotEdit and many others. Stay tuned, again, subscribe.
Rachel: Let us know who you'd want to hear. If there's some person in the photography education community that you'd like to hear what they do with the WordPress, we'll reach out to them, and we're happy to see where this takes us. That's it. Well, awesome.
Scott: Yeah. Thanks, Rachel for joining me on episode 1.
Rachel: Thank you, Scott, for having me in the future.
Scott: Yeah. We'll be chatting again very soon when we talk to Christine in episode 2.
Rachel: Yes. Tune into that. She has some awesome insight about WordPress and then she does her blogging brilliantly and business brilliantly courses. She has a lot of good information for all photographers.
Scott: Christine has a little bit of a claim to fame when it comes to WordPress. You have to listen to episode 2 to find out what that claim is.
Rachel: It's worth it.
Scott: There's your cliffhanger. Again, thank you for listening, watching, reading, however, you're tuning into this, and we'll see you in episode 2.
Rachel: Thanks, bye.